The Problem With Sonarworks SoundID Reference

PATREON:

AFFILIATE LINK:

TOC:

00:00 - Intro
00:40 - The question that started it all..
01:52 - What is SoundID Reference?
4:05 - The Answer
4:40 - Sound examples with and without SoundID Reference
6:05 - Exploring the differences
8:35 - What Sonarworks had to say...
10:51 - How this is like mastering
12:30 - How to support me

#Soundidreference #Roomcorrection #sonarworks

[ManchesterMusic]

Sounds like it's time to ditch Logic!!

[gitpho]

This isn't a SoundID Reference problem—it's a routing problem. Unless your interface only has master L/R outputs, you can use outputs 3/4 for monitoring and put SoundID Reference only on that set. If you have at least 6 outputs, you can dedicate another set to your speakers. You'd also want to create a new master bus before the split so that you don't have to duplicate your mastering plugins on each output. If you'd like me to quickly walk you through this, just reply to this comment and we can set up a Zoom call or something!

[hireality]

Geoff, there shouldn’t be any issue. Just use the Sound ID on the systemwide audio output if you use a Mac (not as a plug-in in the DAW). The whole concept of Sonarwork is for monitoring, not for recording/broadcasting.

[timrideout]

Sonarworks Reference 3/4 / Sound ID is not made for "printing, " exporting or rendering. It should be used strictly as a MONITORING plugin and can correct for some acoustic issues specific to the room being measured by the calibration microphone. Again: it is not for use while exporting / rendering / recording and should be inserted in your monitoring chain ONLY.

[smokinmoose]

I'm 75 and I started out recording in the mid '60s. We worried about two things; how would the mix sound in stereo on a bedroom stereo or a console HI-FI system in someone's living room OR in mono from the single 6x9 speaker on the dashboard of their car. Of course, ultimately, it didn't matter because, just as they do today, the end user was going to completely mash up the sound with the two controls they had, bass and treble, to their own liking, destroying whatever we spent all those hours doing. That included the radio stations that compressed everything to within a dB of having no dynamics whatsoever in order to sound louder than all the other stations (louder is better, right?). And BTW, the record pressing plants did the same thing, reducing the dynamics so the stylus didn't jump out of the grooves on louder passages on teenagers' portable record players where they would stack up six albums on the spindle to not have to get up to change the LPs.

Now kids load up their cell phones with crappy sounding MP3s and listen to them on crappy sounding ear buds. Trying to mix and master something that is going to sound even remotely good once it leaves your studio is a foolish endeavor. The best we can do is make what we think is the best sounding mix we've ever heard and then let it go and never worry about it again.

[RudalPL]

Shameless plug here. 😁
This is what I like about Cubase. The control room option within the DAW lets you put whatever you want on the monitoring channel and not worry about forgetting to turn if off when you export audio as plugins inside control room are not affecting the audio on the output channel.

[OWL.]

I love Studio One for a "Listen bus" which is a fantastic feature for someone who uses room corrections plugins. That should be a standard in every DAW. As for SoundID for me its an essential tool. My mixes translate super accurately on various devices since I use SoundID. I think this is a must have for someone who want to jump on higher level with music production skill, mixing, mastering and doesn't want to spent thousands on professional acoustic treatment. Don't let your room's bad acoustic fool You.

[asymmetrymedia]

I replied it to another comment as well but so others can see:

1. Most daws allow you to have the plugin just on your monitor outputs. So its not affecting the rest and you don't have to turn it on and off.

2. You can route a particular bus to your capturing/streaming program depending on which software you use. This means you'll stream audio from your mixbus or stereo out without having sonarworks affect it.

So its not a Sonarworks issue. Its an issue with how you are routing and capturing your audio.

If you use OBS/Streamlabs, you can very simply use reastream or Sonobus to send audio to your capturing program from any channel or bus you want.

[tchadnoormusic]

The easy way is to use SoundID as systemwide on your computer output. No need to turn it on and off, and you don't need to have it as a plugin on your DAW at all.

[mikemccormick]

Cubase has a Control-Room output that is separate from the masterbus. This control room output allows for plugins that only affect what you hear in the control room and don't affect the master bus. You can also set the volume level of this output separate from the master output. The control room is where I put Reference ID and maybe a room ambience plugin. With this I don't have to worry about what I'm hearing affecting what I am printing.

[DMerkel]

At first, your realization can feel uneasy and anxious. My suggestion would be to set up separate sends from your DAW -- depending on the number of outputs your interface has, you could have separate sends for your cans, for video capture, and even yet another for the master. Keep up the good work!

[PANTECHNICONRecordings]

I’m very familiar with this problem. More times than I care to admit to, I’ve bounced a mix down with the correction curve for my DT-770s still on it because I forgot to turn Sound ID off first. So, having just finished the long-running major project I’ve been working on, I figured now is the time to fix the problem by updating my Logic template so that Sound ID is *only* in the path to my monitor output, while my “bounce” button is on a parallel, non-corrected output. Took a bit of lateral thinking, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be possible if my interface didn’t have four outputs (two stereo). The Cubase “control room” concept (and the equivalents in other DAWs like Studio One and Reaper) is something I hope Apple will introduce to Logic sometime soon.

[cesargonzalezbueno]

Is it normal to feel that you didn't and/or cut enough in certain areas after you listen to your mix without SoundID? Let's say that you're only using SoundID as an insert plugin (not in your whole system) and you're using a HD 650 and because you're using SoundID the HD 650 frequency response is now flat. After you export your mix and listen to it without the frequency correction done by SoundID, is it normal to feel that you didn't cut and/or boost enough in any giving frequency range? Or is that sensation attributed to the fact that you're being fooled by the HD 650 natural frequency response since SoundID is not in use after exporting your mix?

[bits-bytes]

Sounds like a nice use case for a RME recording interface with support for the new Room EQ feature.
Copy SoundID correction values into an outputs Room EQ and then
- Monitor the submix with RoomEQ enabled
- Broadcast the submix without RoomEQ using loopback
And for the normal monitoring .. enable RoomEQ for monitoring if needed.
Regarding downmix in the DAW .. no issues, no Sonarworks plugin needed.

[jimsanger]

Does sound ID have a feature where you can reverse any changes made? To 're correct' it to the original eq

[jerryg]

Geoff how well do reference tools (izotope Total Balance, Sonible True Balance) militate the rooms inadequacy? is it sufficient in my project studio?

[SoundStudio]

Can you send a mirror of the Master Buss to a separate output that does not have SoundID in order to stream/record? That way only your in room audio is colored, while the recording is captured pre-SoundID?

[gkmixing]

Maybe I missed something, but why not use SoundID systemwide? This way you don't need to add SoundID plugin to your master bus in the DAW and you can use something like Rogue Amoeba Loopback to route sound from the DAW to screen capture software, without SoundID affecting recorded sound, but you will be listening through SoundID. And you don't need to use multiple busses or switch DAWs or stuff like that, using Systemwide really is the easiest solution to this.

I've been using this type of setup for years. I use Looback to route sound from the DAW and directly from inputs of my interface to screen capture software (ScreenFlow in my case) and I listen through SoundID Systemwide. Recorded video with audio from the DAW and from inputs of my interface is not affected by SoundID in anyway, but I still get the benefit of listening through SoundID.

[theshortlist]

It's exactly the same for photography, you have to calibrate your video monitor in order to see your file colors accurately, but you don't send the profile of your screen to people, it's only for you, your profile will have an adobe 98 profile, or sRGB, or...
So you use sound ID in order to ear the "real sound", and it helps... but, anyway no perfect monitors exist, same for the room... and two different monitors with their own sound ID profile, will have a different sound, but Sound ID will help to standardized it.
That's the sound point with the new Adam's monitors (A4v, A7v... ), the sound ID profile is in the monitors, that way, you can't make a mistake, your computer remains "natural".

[jaybarls]

Hey Geoff, this definitely highlights an interesting issue with mixing and music production tutorials in general, so you raise some good points - but I don't think it's a Sonarworks issue in itself. In general terms, anyone listening in is not going to have the same monitoring setup as you, and therefore can't have the same experience by default. It's a tricky one to come to terms with overall, because mixing moves that will make sense to you on your setup are not going to make the same sense to everyone else, whether you have Sonarworks active or not - it's more a limitation of their setup if anything. You almost have to assume their setup is as 'flat' as possible, and work from there in good faith, hoping that they can hear what you're going for. If you're boosting the bass and they have an overly bassy monitoring setup, it's going to sound like the wrong move to them, regardless.

Unfortunately as you say, your SoundID calibration will only make this situation worse if it's 'printed' to the stream or video. So as others have said, I think it's very much about routing - you don't want it to colour the output to anyone else listening, but you do want it to assist your mixing as it's designed to do, so you want to be able to monitor with it on. This was a big benefit for me when switching to Cubase, as it has a monitoring 'control room', but there may well be other options for splitting your output between your stream and monitoring setups.