Why Don't We Have More Double-Decker Buses?

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Hi, my name's Reece. I'm a passionate Creator, Transportation Planner, and Software Developer, interested in rapid transportation all around my home base of Toronto, Canada, as well as the whole world!

[andrewwoodgate]

In places with double-deckers, the public learns how to use them effectively; as you say, riders start moving towards the exit before their stop, thus minimising dwell times.

However, using London as an example, I think by far the bigger impact on dwell times has been the introduction of contactless payment.

[jonathanma]

Talking about buses in Hong Kong, i was surprised to find that the "point to point" model of bus service isn't common around the world. In Hong Kong, many buses has 5-10 stops (or less) in a residential neighborhood, then half an hour on motorway, and 10-20 stops in downtown, with around 5min frequency in the morning peak. Perfect examples are like 307, 960, 681(Used to be every 2 min). Many other popular bus routes are also following this principle such as 58x, 87d, 74x, 270a, 788. That makes travelling on buses compeatable with rail transport.

[katbryce]

The thing is, in London, it is the high frequency routes that have double decker buses, and the low frequency routes, the ones where the route number begins with a letter, that have single decker buses. It is the same idea in most parts of the UK, except that the really low frequency routes will often be mini-buses.

If you have lots of people on a route, the cheapest and easiest way to increase capacity is to swap out the single decker for a double decker. You don't need to employ any more drivers. The vehicle costs a bit more and uses a bit more fuel, but still less than two single deckers.

Alexander Dennis is the biggest supplier of buses in the UK as well. They used to be owned by the same person who owns Stagecoach, the largest bus operator in the country. The Boris Buses you showed in the video are made by Wright Omnibus, the other large bus manufacturer in the country, but they are being phased out in favour of electric buses from Alexander Dennis.

[kieranstravels]

I’m in a smaller part of the UK, Essentially in the countryside, and we have a regular double decker service up to every 7 minutes on a particular route here. Double deckers are definitely a useful asset for routes where capacity is needed.

The UK also has for the most part got rid of any bendy buses we had, so double deckers are probably the next best thing.

[ryanscott]

This is a video topic that's always interested me. Here in Scotland they're everywhere too. I was surprised to find out they're uncommon outside of the UK

[ArchOfWinter]

Trains/tram and buses complement each other, they don't replaces each other. Hong Kong has a well designed metro system, but buses plays a major role in transporting people to the stations. Practically every MTR station that has a bus terminal nearby has a circular bus route that takes people to/from nearby neighborhoods. Direct bus routes are more convenient than needing to change train lines. The convenient of direct bus route also leads to comfort as commuters can nap on the upper deck of a bus without the usual noisy crowd of the train. While there's a dedicated airport express train line in Hong Kong, there are still plenty of airport express bus routes that directly services major districts, negating the needs to change to a different trainline while hauling a bunch of luggage.

[chungonion]

I live in Hong Kong, maybe I would supplement some more information about the double decker buses
1. In Hong Kong, roads are mostly constructed with the clearance of no less than 4.3m on all tunnels or overpasses, so that double decker could pass through.

2. Double decker buses required to pass the tilt test (around 30 degress), and during the test it has to simulate the situation of full load on the upper deck, hence its generally safe to travel with double decker in Hong Kong.

3. I think there are only around 4 bus manufacturers in Hong Kong, that have double decker bus models supplied and currently in use (ADL, Volvo, Man and Scania), and they are all European manufacturers (Despite KMB, the largest double decker bus operator in the world, consistently collaborate with those manufacturers for new bus models, say Enviro 500 MMC /Volvo B8L) . So, that's not that much competitors too.

4. Also one of the reason it is everywhere in HK is that vehicle longer than 13m is consider as long vehicle and require separate license. Hence, you only see bus model having a length of 12.8m but not any bus longer than that.

[charthepirate]

My hometown of Davis CA had a student run bus system. They used to buy the old busses from London. They don’t do it as much now but they keep a few that the engineering school converted them to natural gas or biodiesel. Kind of became a symbol of the system and was beloved.

Actually informal or student run transit like UNITRANS might be a good video idea.

[Fanw]

Sweden (which I often visit) tried double-decks in Stockholm from 1967 to 1974. They failed because short distance passengers would not go upstairs. However, the Swedes in the last 20 years have discovered that double-decks are excellent for longer distance express bus routes. Eg Stockholm to Norrtalje, Gothenburg to Borås, Malmö to Kristianstad and Uppsala to Västerås. In the north they work the marathon Umeå-Luleå-Haparanda route.

[michaeloreilly]

Double Deckers take up a lot less road space per passenger, particularly useful in crowded city centres.

[Mgameing]

Good job! The actual truth of why the UK loves its DD's is the fact that its much cheaper to maintain than bendy buses as DD's use less complicated parts!

[paulmccarthy]

In London the double deckers are more of a direct route usually while the single one go around residential areas and use smaller tighter roads

[MrLukealbanese]

Excellent video Reece. There's a lot to this subject worth further discussion. In fact in London the very most frequent routes do use DDs (like the 38 etc.) often as frequent as every 2 minutes in the peak. We did try 500 articulated buses for a while but they didn't have as many seats and weren't as comfortable and cyclists in particular felt that they were disadvantaged by artics poor visibility and wide turning radii. Thing is, DDs have a big advantage on congested streets, and that is that you get good capacity for no extra roadspace. Our trams used to be double decked in the old days as well. Some of them were very large.

[Aphfaneire]

In Ireland, Dublin Bus use's almost exclusively a double decker fleet.

Bus Eireann the national bus company (under the same semi-state) also use's a lot of double deckers of varying models for regional transport and intercity.

Bus Eireann also runs services in other cities and towns, such as Cork and Galway. Here the models can vary even more wildly with cast-offs and older models filtering through. But new buses bought by the National Transport Agency (NTA) are begining to replace each companies fleet and combine the livery nationwide.

One delay to Dublin's bus connects programme has been that there are very few fully electric double deckers. So in combination with a driver shortage it has been a slow process to roll out our upgraded bus services.

[LilBoyHexley]

Your point about making transit fun is one I've been thinking about a lot. I always feel like cities undersell the degree with which really good transit can become a true *feature* of the city. And not just a conveyance like another highway.

Something that makes people want to live and work there, and a something cool and convenient that tourists flock to.

[camberweller]

“…obsessed with making it uninteresting”. THIS! One of the things I remember best about pro-transit folks in Toronto up until about 2002 (when I moved) was that too many of them weren’t pro-transit per se, they were anti-car. There was also far too often a strong streak of PENANCE about them: they wanted you taken out of the sin of the car but they didn’t care if you were miserable once you were Saved. [Churches don’t care if pews are comfortable as long as your arse is in them, after all. ;) ]

A big part problem was that “how do we make this good and sell it to people?” is a private sector mindset, whereas most of the pro transit people were of the political left, and had a public sector, *dirigiste* mindset. Private businesses have to be pleasant so that people want to come back and choose to come back. Government services don’t have to be or do any of that, because people have to come back and are made to come back. The latter mindset translates poorly into making public transit something that people actually choose.

[piervail]

You're right Reece about competition. We should open it worldwide. And we should stop this horrendous "lower bid" tag. The biddings should also be evaluate for the quality of the product as well as the price. And on many more aspects. Of course it will take much more 'precious' time to our deputies than just picking up the 'lower' one. Sorry. Excuse my 'French' I'm tired. Have a nice day!

[marsgal]

I remember when Victoria BC introduced double-decker buses. They were practical, more capacity and a better fit for the small city blocks downtown than articulated buses. They also appealed to Victoria's "more British than the British" schtick.

[AnthonyBrusca]

Your comment about passengers going to the first deck of buses before their stop is the reason why NJ transit multi level cars are fine. The middle level at the ends are really the way of keeping dwell times low.

[brianbell]

One thing we do in UK with double deckers that I doubt you see in many other countries, especially America, is to use them down incredibly narrow country lanes, often with tree branches scraping the roof. Generally the reason is that the capacity is needed for school time journeys, and the same bus just stays on the route all day. Or sometimes the double decker is the only spare bus between schools that can be used to run a shoppers bus during the daytime. Would send photos, but unable to so so on here.