Exploring the Philosophical and Scientific | Dr. Daniel Dennett | EP 438

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with writer, philosopher, and cognitive scientist Dr. Daniel Dennett. They discuss the concepts of aboutness, intention, and the highest good as they relate to the religious and secular worlds, the establishment of trust and ethics outside of transcendent presupposition, and the loss of academic freedom at the misapprehension of postmodernism.

Dr. Daniel Dennett is an American philosopher, writer, and cognitive scientist. He has published dozens of books, such as “Consciousness Explained" (1992), “Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life” (1996), and “Breaking the Spell: Religion as Natural Phenomena” (2007).

This episode was recorded on March 9th, 2024.

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(0:00) Tour Update: Konstantin Kisin
(0:59) Coming up
(1:31) Intro
(3:23) Defining religion, aboutness, and intention
(9:10) Is the “highest good” a religious or natural concept?
(14:35) Dr. Dennett’s pragmatic conception of the “highest good”
(17:39) Andrew Gibson, affordances and agents of transformation
(21:27) The relationship of anxiety to entropy computation
(24:43) Cognitive and emotional conflict is mirrored across theology
(28:44) Conceptualizing what’s highest as a relationship, the Cartesian Theater
(36:35) Thought as secularized prayer, Plato’s Aviary
(44:46) What allows for trust in a secular world?
(48:09) Free will is an achievement, not an endowment
(51:09) The conception of God in the biblical corpus, a dialogue among equals
(59:14) Do these working presumptions exist outside the purview of science?
(1:02:22) When you make a tool you also make a weapon
(1:05:46) Where Gould went wrong, foundational principles, and dynamism
(1:08:44) The hierarchy of DNA repair, Osiris and Seth
(1:14:15) The secularization of ethics, how to validate moral claims without religion
(1:21:36) “It was a wonderful taming force,” religion as a nurse crop for science
(1:24:41) The evolution of human fears into governing religions
(1:27:57) The loss of academic freedom at the misapprehension of postmodernism
(1:36:28) Dr. Dennett’s latest work: “The Problem of Counterfeit People”

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[martialartsnerd]

This was Daniel’s final public appearance. Thank you for uploading this, Jordan.

[tylerraabe]

The value of watching two men with fundamentally different points of view of life having a conversation cannot be overstated. We get to watch it for free.

[axe-z]

Mr Dennett, what a legend, you will be missed.

[TwoKnowingRavens]

I learned a great deal Daniel Dennet. He very ironically led me to faith through a process almost too complicated to describe here. If he were still alive to hear my explanation I would say that he didn't fail in any way, but he did expose me to even deeper questions. Skepticism is an extremely useful tool, but one shouldn't stop using it when they find an answer they like. I was searching for true justification for my atheism and what I ended up finding was God. Not by avoiding information, but by turning over absolutely every stone possible. I hope that it honors Dr. Dennet's memory and those who survive him that he challenged me to challenge myself and he gave me a great deal of tools that helped me to help myself and others. I honor his memory. But I would not mock him by praying for him. I suspect he has had all of the conversations he has needed to with God and himself even if he remained honestly unaware. Thank you Dr. Dennet and rest in peace.

[MumblesMumbled]

Rest easy, Dr. Dennett. A most brilliant thinker of our time.

[ClearlyCero]

I deeply appreciate Dr. Dennett for coming on. Thank you both!

[christemple]

The moment when Jordan used the term "revelation" (at roughly 53 minutes into the video) he instantly, and maybe even subconsciously, had to clarify and rephrase because he could see that using that word had created a riff between he and Dr. Dennett. You could see it in Dr. Dennett's face. It was an on-the-spot demonstration of exactly the hypothetical he was talking about, how to reconcile a relationship that was falling into distrust. That was amazing. Did anybody else see that?

[Richie_Godsil]

I just read that Dr. Dennett passed away. This conversation is an excellent final interview and conversation I'm very sad to learn of his passing.
RIP

[autumnleaves]

Always look forward to Mondays and Thursdays, when Dr Peterson's latest interviews come on here for a wider audience to enjoy. Who needs a television when you can find podcasts of this quality ? Thanks to Dr Peterson and his guest.

[Evolushaun]

Thank you for everything Dr. Daniel Dennett. You are one of my intellectual heroes.

[alexanderfailoni]

Dr. Dennett was the most balanced of the horsemen, even if it didn't garner him as much fame for it. Firm but fair and not belittling.

[barbaracholak]

Two distinguish gentleman having a civil conversation ...
What a treat!!!

[Andrejdrapal]

Dan Dennett, who provoked me to rethink philosophy and evolution and forced me to challenge his ideas, passed away yesterday. There are not many philosophers that provoke you constantly despite not agreeing with them constantly. I'm so sorry I could not meet him three years ago talking with Dawkins (whom I disagree with even more, but started with memes) and Susan Blackmore, my mother in memetics. The discussion at Tufts was canceled due to Corona. What I can do besides mourning and wishing him all the best in the realm he did not believe in is to praise his latest discussion with Jordan Peterson. It is such an intellectual pleasure to listen to two great thinkers of our age who could not disagree more.

[chandlerangol]

Dr. Dennet’s point of view becomes abundantly sympathetic when you realize that he was on his death bed. In this conversation he was not only having an exchange of ideas, but also coping with the reality of his death. What this man needed was not god, but medicine and a cure. His view is one that most of us will come to when meeting death.

[yurypal]

This was an intense conversation. I am impressed with JBP’s courage to face counter arguments to his long-standing beliefs.
Thanks for doing this!

[frankiemiller]

Absolutely love and appreciate you having Daniel Dennett on the show.

An all time favorite 😊

[deliverychain]

I’ve been a fan of Jordan Peterson a long time. I’ve listened to hundreds of hours of his lectures and podcasts. One issue I have, as much as I enjoy hearing Jordan speak, he struggles with shutting his mouth many times with his guests. He always needs to interject long diatribes. I’d be interested in knowing the percentage of time he is talking versus active listening.

[pauliewalsh]

I've been privalaged to have been a subscriber to Petersons channel when it numbered in the thousands. Everytime I get a notification to watch a new video, I smile as I watch his followers grow monthly by the thousands. At almost 8 million subscribers and billions of views, it is nothing short of glorious that his philosophy is reaching a mass that so badly craves the guidance of such a warm father figure.
Long may his audience grow and may his important message resound long after essence of this wonderful soul is called home🙏🏼

[mobinmobaseri]

You cannot put a value on these enlightening talks. Thank you Jordan!

[Cinderella]

My brother Pitin (childhood nickname) and I have been having deep religious and philosophical conversations along with a lot of childhood reminiscing. My brother is dying. The doctor gave him less than 30 days to live. Unless God has other plans that’s the prognosis. My brother is taking 750 mg hemorrhage meds, 250mg in the am and 250 in the pm. He had surgery last year and now there is nothing more the doctors can do for him. We are celebrating his life and I’m spending a lot of time with him before he enters hospice. Life is such a precious gift. My brother has lived a very adventurous life. He’s a phenomenal artist, sings like many angels, was a martial arts expert, and an ordained minister. Anyway, we are very close and it’s difficult losing my brother. He is ready to meet Almighty God. Thank you Jordan ✝️🙏🏻❤️😔