Did SATAN Take a Third of the Angels with HIM?

Where are there angels (plural) that sinned in the Old Testament before Noah, or any place? There are no passages in the Old Testament that have angels, as a group, sinning other than Genesis 6:1-5. You might be thinking, "well, Mike, didn’t Satan fall and take a third of the angels with him?" Well, yeah, you hear that a lot. The problem is; there isn't a single passage in the Bible that teaches that Satan fell and took a third of the angels with him in primeval days, or at all. Check it out!

[DRMSH]

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[jj]

For those new here. Dr Heiser is a scholar and received a PhD in Semitic languages and the Hebrew Bible. He specializes in linguistics and near eastern texts. He has opened my eyes to reading the bible through the lens of the authors. Also how people during the first century would read the text completely different then how we do. Everyone has an opinion, and we must stay firm in the word to truly understand it. God Bless!

[Hollywoodhouse]

John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him”

[TheMeefive]

Actually when you read the entire chapter of Revelation 12 you find that it doesn't appear to be in chronological order. Verse 4 says "And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to earth. and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."
Clearly the dragon taking a third part of the stars of heaven and being cast to the earth, happened before he stood before the woman. How much before? it doesn't say. But it appears to be a reference to Luke 10:18 where Jesus said he beheld Satan like lightning fall from heaven. Which would make it before the creation of the universe.
The identity of the dragon is revealed in Rev 12:9 which once again says the Dragon was cast out, then identifies him as that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him." Once again it seems to indicate that the war in heaven and the casting out of the Devil and his angels (the third part of the stars of heaven) refers to the initial rebellion of the Devil and his expulsion from heaven before the foundation of the world.
Then you go to verse 13 and it literally says "And when the Dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.' Clearly, the persecution of the woman wasn't the cause of the war in heaven.
Now who the woman was is debatable. it could refer to Eve, Israel or directly to Mary, or it could refer to all three. You cannot dismiss the fact that Satan took a third part of the angels based on this chapter.

[GorrestFummp]

For everybody who is pulling the “heresy” card and arguing in the comments, you chose to engage with one 5 minute video of Heiser’s…read his books! Unseen Realm is incredibly in depth and provides very solid foundation for this point of view. Keep an open mind, be willing to have the Holy Spirit teach you new things. Nobody’s saying you’ll agree with it in the end, but maybe dig a little deeper before you start plastering someone for their belief based on an area of expertise that they’ve spent the better part of 40 years studying. Just cheerfully engage before you call “blasphemer”

A great reference for this is Dr. Sean McDowell, he has a thriving YouTube channel where he interviews atheists, progressive pastors, and others in an attempt to engage in helpful conversation, as well as engaging with specialists in a diverse area of biblical knowledge. If we aren’t willing to approach these situations with humility, we are only going to continue to propitiate the assumption the Christians are judgmental bigots. Just take the time to engage with a cheerful heart

[harrymurray]

While there is no verse that says "a third of the angels fell from heaven, " some verses, when put together, lead us to that conclusion. Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1).

We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of angels” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” (Revelation 12:3–9).

Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the stars were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen angels, fully one third of the heavenly host. If the one-third number is in fact accurate, what assurance that is! Two thirds of the angels are still on God’s side, and for followers of Christ, they are on our side as well.

[PunisherMAXXImmortal]

If things like this challenge your worldview, then be a Berean and search it and find out if the things being taught are so. Challenging one's worldview is important because we all have blindspots. We need iron to sharpen iron. There are many doctrines thay are taught in contemporary Christianity that were never considered doctrine by the Reformers, early church, the apostles, or the propehets. We need people like Dr. Heiser to challenge us. We are all far to comfortable in our theological echo chambers many times. Thank you Dr. Heiser for this. Praying for your health and well-being.

[DavidKfilmmaker]

I wonder how someone who casually reads the Bible doesn’t read that in revelation

[georgiacollett]

Surely the third of the stars refer to the Angel's who rebelled with satan and were cast out to the earth?

[josephpack]

Jesus said He saw satan fall to earth like lightening. Enough for me.

[Charles-]

Doesn't the book of Enoch have angels sinning? or is this specifically only looking through the lens of of what is considered cannon to the church?

[Professional-fhow]

I respectfully disagree with your assertion of Revelations 12:4.

[michaellee]

I do respect Mr Heiser at times but I must conclude that this video is more about word play than interpretation. It is clearly and infatically referenced to mean 1/3 of the angels indeed fell with satan. Period!

[immanuelsun]

If angels started sinning in Gen. 6, who deceived Eve and was thus judged?

If man was casted out of Eden, what happened to Satan and his company of rebels? Stay in the same abode? The Bible, even Jesus Himself, clearly stated that he became the ruler or prince of this world. Why and when that happened?

A grain of yeast will defile the whole reading of what angels are and how they operate. Let us be mindful of that.

[zfmwokf]

Jesus clearly thinks there are angels who sinned before His ascension.Matthew 25:41 (CSB) “Then he will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

[sourclam]

These videos are too short lol. I want to keep listening. Thanks for this.

[davidaustin]

Yes!! “ Stars “, are Angels !!! Stop LYING AND CONFUSING THE UNREAD

[Proganaut]

I would like to ask Michael what did satan take a third of? Actual stars? What was the third mentioned in Rev 12?

[magnanova]

Teachers have typically concluded that Rev 12:1-5 is jumping around in history describing different events (satan's rebellion, Jesus' birth, Jesus' ascension & the end times) because they see no other logical interpretation. Think about it though, this whole passage (chapters 12-16) is only describing the end times, we only put 12:1-5 in the past because we can't see how they could fit into the end times. The context of Rev 12:1-5 is not jumping back and forth through time from Jesus' birth to satan's rebellion to the birth of Jesus (again) to Jesus' ascension then back to the end times.

The woman clothed with the sun represents the end time redeemed Israel or The Bride of Christ which includes all those gentiles grafted in to Israel (Eph 2:11-19, Rom 11:19). No, this is not replacement theology - God will keep all His literal promises & covenants to natural Israel but the gentiles are grafted into those covenants in Christ. Rev 12 is talking about this final Israel unified in Yeshua. I'm not saying "All of Israel is saved" at this point. The sun represents being clothed with the glory of Christ (Rev 1:16, Mal 4:2) and the moon under her feet represents living above the lesser light of the Law (Col 2:16-17).

So who is the Rev 12 male child that the woman gives birth to? It is a "type" or picture of those who overcome in Christ and will rule with Christ on His throne:

Rev 2:26 - The one who overcomes, and the one who keeps My deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are shattered, as I also have received authority from My Father.

Rev 3:21 - The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne.

Note that Rev 2:26 uses the exact same language "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" for the overcomers as Rev 12:5 does for the male child.

Why is it a male child? Because it's talking about a mature son:

Eph 4:13 - until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Why are these overcomers being caught up to God's throne? To be given their final assignment to return to the earth and prepare the way for Christ's return.

I'm not saying that the Bride is not also part of these "overcomers", my point is that Rev 12 is highlighting that the remnant bride at that point in the End Times gives birth to more overcomers with a specific assignment.

Why is the dragon casting a third of the stars to the earth? Because he's initiating a fallen angelic invasion of the earth as part of his attempt to prevent the woman from giving birth. Satan only sends his angels down to earth when they can no longer control things from the heavens. That leaves 2 thirds still in the heavens which are thrown down when Michael & his angels casts satan and his angels down to the earth in Rev 12:7. This war in the heavens is presumably initiated by the male child overcomers returning with their assignment to the earth.

Here are some teachers who interpret Rev 12 this way:
- Brian Simmons (Translator of The Passion Translation Bible): see the Rev 12 footnotes in TPT

[luminawarren]

This is also like many who say lucifer isnt the devil when pagans themselves will tell you he is the devil etc. Its all a figurative dance of shadows and intrepretation. Most importantly have a relationship with the Holy Spirit and "He will teach you all things" John 14.26.