Thoughts on Chick-fil-A (PODCAST E52)

Purchase shares in great masterpieces from artists like Pablo Picasso, Banksy, Andy Warhol, and more.

[delk]

Dwarf doesn't only refer to small real humans. It is also an adjective for something small (ie dwarf star).

[pizzaguy]

Adam after talking about Chick-fil-A for over an hour: Boy these beans may be controversial

[jpe]

Boycotting a restaurant is *never* difficult, doesn’t matter where the restaurant or the boycotter is located, it’s a simple matter of *not* going in, *not* buying food there. I know of no place in the USA where food choices are limited to a single restaurant chain, there are always alternatives to the one being boycotted.

[SacredDaturaa]

I think in the same spirit of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good", I don't know every product whose company's owners are awful people, and honestly I don't have the time nor inclination to zealously research every one of my purchases in this way. But what I can do is put in the minimal effort of boycotting products I *DO* know will profit bad people, when I remember to. I don't think that makes me ethically inconsistent.

[TwistPickle]

Love your channel and your content, Adam. That said, I must admit I was a bit surprised to hear your take on Chick-fil-A, especially given your recent podcast re: the new Harry Potter game. Chick-fil-a itself may have stopped donating directly to anti-LGBTQ organizations, but the members of the Cathy family still very much do. In my mind, buying Chick-fil-a supports this family and the ideals they stand for in a similar manner that purchasing the Harry Potter game supports J.K. Rowling and her ideals. Should you feel bad purchasing a Chick-fil-a sandwich every once in a while? No, but as you said in your Harry Potter podcast, purchasing these products does—albeit indirectly—fund these ideals. Regarding "boycotting the south", I agree with other commenters that you may be under-representing Chick-fil-a's presence in the rest of the U.S. There may be MORE chick-fil-a restaurants in the south than in say New England, but 1) Chick-fil-a's certainly still exist up there and not eating their food is still very much a choice, more importantly 2) it is very much a choice for people in the South to eat at Chick-fil-a. There are plenty of competing restaurants that do NOT support anti-LGBTQ ideals as directly or indirectly as Chick-fil-a does. I understand that there is a certain "social cost" to not eating Chick-fil-a in the south that does not necessarily exist elsewhere in the country, but I just don't think "I choose to support the evil corporation because if I don't my friends and family will look down on me" is a very good argument. If Chick-fil-a is so much a part of Southern identity that choosing not to eat there is a significant inconvenience, socially or otherwise, then maybe that part of the Southern identity needs to be reconsidered.

To conclude, I wanted to paraphrase one of your own conclusions from your Harry Potter podcast, because I think it was an incredibly apt observation at the time and I think just as apt here: "Chick-fil-a's deeds (if you consider them misdeeds) are not ancient history. Their campaign against LGBTQ inclusion is still large, active, and ongoing through those that own and run the company. Buying their sandwiches funds that campaign. It probably doesn't matter that much; they're probably going to have more than enough money to keep doing what they do whether you buy a sandwich or fries or not. The whole word could boycott Chick-fil-a immediately, and they'd still have far more money then they could ever need for the rest of their lives... But... I think you should think about how your consumption looks to your friends who do not fit comfortably into traditional family values... I think the most important factor to consider is their feelings. Because, as uncomfortable as this moment of societal transition may be for cis-gendered straights like me, it is far more uncomfortable and scary and dangerous for LGBTQ people."

[tanelipirinen]

Adam, I know you have to pay the bills, but your sponsor appears to be pretty sus after you look into it a bit more.

[jacob]

I'm indifferent to their food but I absolutely avoid any area that has a Chick-fil-A because it's a traffic nightmare and adds like 5-10 minutes on my commute. It's like dumping kerosene on the fire that is US infrastructure

[princeuva]

I'm a Southerner who dislikes Chick-fil-A and doesn't eat there partially out of distaste for the food and partially out of principle. Believe me, I know of what I speak, am not lying to myself or you, and am not a total cynic.

I ate there many times as a kid, mainly because it was a favorite of family members from Georgia, and long before the company started it's late 20th century expansion. The only Chick-fil-A in our area was in a mall food court, right outside the movie theater, so it was more of a special treat at the time (70s & 80s). The food was better then, but mainly for the nostalgia factor.

Back in the day, my favorite was the old school chicken salad sandwich - minced breast meat with slightly sweetish mayo and pickles (and a very occasional, finely chopped almond) on crisply toasted, thin whole wheat bread. I think I liked it most because it was my grandmother's favorite also. That menu item went the way of the dodo long ago. Doesn't sound very appealing to the current me in terms of quality, but it was good when I was a kid. I'd give a lot to get to eat another one of those with my grandmother.

Fast forward to 2023 and their food is middling at best, even more overly sweetened, and, as Adam notes, heavily MSG laden, so not really my thing. It's almost a caricature of itself. If I'm going to spend all those calories, I'd choose Zaxby's, Culver's or Whataburger any day of the week. Incidentally, Culver's and Whataburger manage to pull off a similar service strategy without the creepy factor, and Zaxby's chicken is better.

That having been said, I happen to be gay and the company's and the family's very public spending and support for anti-gay causes would have been more than enough to sour me on their food even if it truly was extraordinary. Luckily, my local Chick-fil-A is surrounded by many choices including a Zaxby's, Bojangles, Popeye's, and a KFC. I'll never have to face that harrowing gauntlet of the multiple drive thru lines poking out into heavy traffic and the creepy employees blessing me unless someone requests that I stop there.

This world is full of numerous options for where to shop. If I can buy food at a place that I like as well or better and doesn't make me feel creeped out and despised, forgive me for taking my custom there.

I don't have a problem with people who like to eat at Chick-fil-A or to shop at Publix whether out of habit or preference, but the way Adam pretends these two establishments are the pinnacle of corporate efficiency and excellence kind of boggles my mind. Both are mid at best, both are overpriced for what you get, and both are suffused with the kind of faux (and enforced) religiosity and self-congratulation that I find very off-putting. Don't get me started on all the customers who consciously go to these establishments BECAUSE of their reputation for supporting causes that denigrate gays and supporting insurrection.

Nonetheless, Publix is my closest grocery store, so I will run in there occasionally for convenience sake and regret the high prices I pay every time for their mediocre fare. Luckily, I don't have that problem with Chick-fil-A often, but even I still might stop there in a pinch if it was the only option at an interstate exit, for instance. Truthfully, though, I do feel a little guilty, a little dirty after having gone either of these places because of their association with the forces of hate, and I'm glad that I do. You can call that virtue signaling if you like, but I think it's a lot closer to a virtue itself. Awareness of the reality, compromise with the reality, trying to do better, wrestling with it. I like to think that's what Adam does in his better moments, too.

However, the worst part of this podcast was Adam's bit about his privilege as an educated Northerner. Somehow he managed to be even more condescending to the South than the standard, more straightforward, and frankly accurate case many Northerners make about the many ills of Southern culture. (Yikes, what was that uniformed blather about the Civil War and slavery? Better luck next time!) Some of us poor, benighted Southerners managed to get excellent educations and figured out how our culture sucked all on our own -- and guess what, there were Southerners, white and black, who opposed slavery before and during the Civil War. Don't get me wrong, Southern culture has good points, too, plenty of them. Sugary, additive-pumped, fast-food fried chicken isn't one of them. Wish y'all could have tried my grandfather's recipe, fried in cast iron, now that would have been something worthy of an hour+ long podcast.

[zerg]

Adam when it comes to Dwarf the term it was used almost exclusively for the mythical race of Nordic/German folklore. Then it became a term for smaller versions of things particularly animals. When Truett started to make fhe Dwarf house restaurants Midget was the term du jur for people of limited verticality with Dwarfism being the clinical term.

[rodrigodemiguellamminen]

I find it kinda funny how Adam talks about Chick Fil A as it were some kind forbidden fruit, some irresisitible glorious temptation only resisted by those who don't have access to it

[GabrielVXIX]

Some (hopefully) legally protected answers to the chicken questions/comments, from an anonymous Chick-Fil-A worker:
The chicken is absolutely brined. It's shipped in bags where it's packed in a semi-thick liquid, not like the chicken juice you get in any old pack of chicken breasts. That being said, it is probably not pickle juice. The brine smells mostly like garlic, onion, and pepper, and really not too acidic. The brine might have something like citric acid or other tenderizers, the only issue is that chicken being shipped and then held before breading might be sitting in a tightly sealed refrigerator bag of brine for several days. If it were something like pickle juice, it would be mush by the time we cook it. The pressure fryers really do quite a lot for retaining moisture, but the chicken definitely gets hotter than 165F. We temp it multiple times a day to ensure safety and it usually sits between 180 and 200F. I think it's more important that the chicken is not raw and the outside is brown, so understandably overcooking is not the biggest concern. You got the battering pretty much spot on, though I can't make any claims on what's inside the flour dredge, it's all pre-packaged. I've never seen anyone do the "thumb rubbing" action you described, and I'm not familiar with the video you mentioned, so I can't speak to whether that's true or was just a marketing stunt. To get uniform thickness, we use "fillet rollers" that are essentially a big corrugated pasta roller to flatten the breasts into fillets. The breaders do push the dredge really hard into the chicken, honestly though that's just good practice for any fried chicken. Also I know it's nitpicky, but especially when we're busy, the chicken isn't exactly small batch. we'll drop like 9 fillets in a single batch, using one of those layered frying baskets so every 2 or 3 fillets is separated by a little metal rack. The timers to keep the chicken fresh is a very real thing, but the corporate heated storage systems have the window set for like 20 minutes so there's plenty of time to sell it.

I hope this doesn't sound too good to be true, I was careful not to make any outrageous claims or share intimate details since that's probably against company policy, but I haven't hidden any significant detail or bad practices. I definitely stand by our chicken, it's consistently well-prepared.

[Cheesemonkh]

the term "dwarf" is generally accepted as a term for a smaller version of a plant or animal in botanical and zoological literature, and i think it's a bit disingenuous to imply that the naming of a location as 'dwarf' for being small is anything more than the same thing. i don't want to be rude or offend anyone with a medical condition either but i don't think it's okay to imply that certain terminology is unacceptable just because it might offend someone when the domain of that is so far removed from anything that could potentially cause offense.

[jaibinmathew]

A thing that confused me about the episode is this idea that Chick-fil-a is a ubiquitous thing that Southerners eat at all the time and seemingly worship at the altar of (I may be exaggerating, but it seemed the me that Adam mentioned this multiple times)

I grew up in suburban Texas, I ate there all the time growing up. My family is Christian. My high school was across from a Chic-Fil-A. Even with every single one of those factors, I don't think there is this slavish allegiance to the fast food chain. I mean I grew up in Texas, so Whataburger is the crazy cult, not the chicken sandwich place. So, the idea of boycotting it or giving it up, is really not the craziest thing, especially cause it's not like the South lacks in good fast food, we invented chicken buckets and Louisiana fried chicken and fish fries (did not fact check this).

Also not trying to make a moral judgement there. I used to eat there very frequently in high school, it was very convenient, when I learned of the anti-LGBTQ+ stuff, I generally stayed away (I liked Popeyes better but have not heard of the presumably horrible stuff they do as a corporation). Some of my queer and straight friends eat there, some don't. I think in daily life most people don't care too much because frankly, there is more important stuff to care about that (like active queer discrimination in legislatures rn)

I get why Adam is so wary to include his patronage at the place though, it must be frustrating being a public figure and therefore being scrutinized to that degree. But I think it's also an odd move to post an hour and a half long podcast about the chain. It's cool that he praises its efficiencies, but it seems like he's lighting a fire that no one wanted burned.

Overall, it seems like he wanted to make a podcast justifying why he eats there. It just seems like the justification of it being a way of life in the South feels off, at least according to my experience as a Southerner. If he likes the chicken, he likes it, but trying to create this Northerners hate on Chick-Fil-A because they don't get it because they're Northerners, feels misguided. It's a good chicken sandwich, the people ARE nice, but it's not in the South's DNA like brisket or cold beer on a Friday Night.

My question is, is the chicken really worth it? They were actively homophobic, less than 10 years ago. They still donated to anti-LGBTQ within this past decade. They lobbied for shit not too long ago. I'm for forgiveness, and accepting people (or corporations in this case) when they do wrong and try to improve. But it's not like Chic-Fil-A does right, they're just quiet about the homophobia, and personally that feels gross, which is why I get my chicken sandwiches elsewhere. Not getting CFA is virtue signaling, and that's can be a good thing, I personally want to indicate that I would prefer my corporate overlords to be actively anti-homophobic rather than the other way around.

Adam if you like Chick-Fil-A, go for it. It just seems silly to argue that it's integral to Southern Living or something like that. Just eat it!

[patorjk]

In regards to the pickle juice - there's an excellent video on youtube by Jason Framer where he re-creates the Chick-fil-a sandwich recipe. He mentions that current and former employees say there's no pickle juice. I actually followed the recipe he laid out and it tasted spot on to me.

[swiftythegathering]

As a gay man who has lived most of his life in the south, I do boycott chik fil a. I cannot, in good conscience, give my money to a corporation that seems to get caught every other year “accidentally” still donating to people that hate my very existence. I’ve lived in NC, SC, AR, GA, and VA, and even now that I’m not in “the south” there are chik fil a’s in driving distance to me, I see at 2 locations during my commute every day. “It tastes good” isn’t a good enough excuse for me, personally, to spend my money there

[BenjaminEarlMusic]

Corporations are not people. Corporations are ideas that represent decisions made by groups of people. It is fair to criticize decisions made by groups of people, and even individuals, in a de-humanized way.

I'm queer, I live in Kansas, and there is no shortage of Chick-fil-A in my market. I think it's fair to say that I am in no way an "outsider" to this discussion. It's nice to know how well Chick-fil-A locations are run, and I'm happy to hear that they largely treat their employees well. But that doesn't change that they are a corporation that spent millions of dollars over many, many years actively trying to restrict my rights. I take their actions and decisions personally, because I was, in a sense, personally targeted by them. That also doesn't change that they are a corporation that is still owned by and run by a family who believes that my fundamental nature is somehow unnatural. I appreciate that they have ceased giving money to groups that hate me, but I have not (and likely will not) forgiven them for doing so in the first place.

All that being said, I don't judge anyone who decided to resume their patronage of Chick-fil-A after these donations stopped, but I, personally, will not be.

Adam, I always appreciate how candid you are about sensitive topics like this, and I find that I generally agree with your opinions for the most part. I disagreed with certain things you said in this podcast just enough to write this comment.

[Alewort]

"Reconstituted ground chicken parts" is a funny way to say "chicken meatloaf".

[TheMister]

Re: the MSG component, there is another fast food non-Asian application of MSG that, in my estimation, is at least as prominent as in Asian food: Many Americanized taco chains (and convenience stores) put a whole lot of MSG in their nacho cheese sauce.

[rebusxrex]

I have rather particular feelings about Chick-fil-A being a Black Northerner. The feeling is a discomfort about the "perfect being the enemy of good" thing. The Civil war and the period of Reconstruction and its aftermath suggests that the pendulum swing that Chick-fil-A will eventually do should not be forgotten. The Maya Angelou quote: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." and the final lines of that story of the Lady and the Snake: "you knew i was a snake when you picked me up" both come to mind. I think there are legitimate reasons why an outsider can criticize Chick-fil-A much as I can criticize the state of civil rights in the South; we have family there. We are seeing encroachments of Chick-fil-A here in the west and I expect we will pay a high moral price for it.

[elizar.]

As an LGBT person: I'm not going to yell at you, or shun you, or call you a homophobe if you walk in with a CFA bag. It's not a dealbreaker, but it's a little red flag with an acquaintance. It will make me more hesitant to tell you about my girlfriend; I'll be more careful about floating a test balloon to see if you're going to be a jerk about trans people; you're going to be the one whose face I glance at to check for a flash of discomfort when gay characters kiss in a TV show we're watching.

As you say, there are other corporations that do worse, but come on, let's be honest; we live in a society, and eating there has become a political statement regardless of whether or not it should be.

I also see your point about wanting to reward people (or corporations) for change! I'm all for that! I would be more convinced by this argument if CFA had shown any willingness to apologize for their past views, donate to LGBTQ+ causes, or remove the virulent homophobes from their board of directors.