The First Order - New Republic War Doesn't Work | Star Wars

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30 years after the fall of the Galactic Empire, the First Order struck from the Unknown Regions and launched an all-out assault on the New Republic. So why is it this conflict feels like a historical footnote rather than a major galactic event?

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Background music "Building New Horizons" by Chris Haigh.
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Honestly the new republic being neutered was the biggest disappoint to me. It made the efforts of Rebel Alliance mean nothing to just be wiped out in one go.

neofulcrum
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"Somehow, Palpatine returned"

I think this still is the perfect summary of the sequels and why they do not work at all.

XraynPR
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You should do a series surrounding this concept of “this doesn’t work” like explaining why certain factions or events like wars just don’t war for any number of reasons.

comentnine
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“I don’t know how we got here, I don’t really know what the objectives are, I don’t know what this is supposed to achieve, and I don’t understand why events played out the way they did.” Perfect summary of the sequel trilogy.

sveltercube
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"'The New Republic Lies to the galaxy!' About what, though? Who really knows, it's not important." This a quote that accurately sums up what the directors and executives were thinking while making this trilogy

slovakiaballif
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"I don't really know what's at stake here" -on the Republic Fleet Composition.

See, this is EXACTLY the problem with transitioning from an ad-hoc built rebel fleet hiding from the rest of the galaxy, to two actual states fighting a war: while the nature of the Clone Wars meant the battle lines didn't matter as much, because it was a massive and messy war with no clear battle lines, the Sequel Trilogy has no such excuse, as the First Order has actual borders, and has given us no reason to believe they had a serious military presence elsewhere in the galaxy before their attack.

That means the New Republic has a MASSIVE pool of resources to safely pull from, such that the New Republic should be able to build entire fleets of small ships in weeks. A Mon Calamari cruiser took roughly six months to build, and a frigate like a Nebulon-B took one month, so it stands to reason that Star Fighters using mostly civilian parts could be built within days, maybe even less.

In other words, that massive flood of ships from the final movie is EXACTLY what the Republic fleet should have looked like *weeks* into the war, not at its end, so...where the heck was it, and why is the bare minimum of what the Republic should be able to do such a shock to everyone?

bubbasbigblast
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What became increasingly clear during the release of the sequel trilogy, was that much of the background narrative was either given very low priority or neglected entirely. This might be because of the production teams' (most likely mainly Abrams', Johnson's and Kennedy's) apparent disdain for the (sterotypical) 'flaws' of the Star Wars-franchise; 'Too much unnecessary lore, -fluff and distracting elements such as politics, technobable and extended mythology' (mostly orginating from the Prequels' poor reputation), believing that Star Wars should mainly be a straight forward story about Good vs Evil.

Arvidus
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The sequels would’ve been so much more interesting if the First Order truly felt more like the last remnants of the empire. They don’t feel like a remnant. They feel like the literal empire without any changes and with all their strength intact.

It would’ve been dope to watch a trilogy where the bad guys are actually at a disadvantage.

isaacwilcox
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That comparison to WW2 Japan really helped me realize just how stupid the conflict in these movies are

horsfred
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I could never take the First Order seriously, because they were so hysterically overpowered, and the Resistance so hysterically underpowered by comparison. Because it's like, every time the Resistance destroys one of their big guns with their two and a half x-wings, the First Order just pulls out a bigger and more powerful gun out of their back pocket like it's some kind of cartoon. You'd think losing Starkiller Base, their primary fleet and their Supreme Leader in less than two days would be enough for them to pull back and rethink their decisions, but apparently not.

nbplayer
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If only the writers put more than five minutes into these movies, and knew how to write.

Casey-jnib
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The strategic goal of the war shifts quickly, so it may be missed. Initially, in Force Awakens, it is to s̶e̶t̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶m̶y̶s̶t̶e̶r̶y̶ s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶, let the small First Order try cow the galaxy, which is fortunately full of idiots. By Last Jedi (IE about a day later) it has shifted to s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ s̶u̶b̶v̶e̶r̶t̶ ̶a̶u̶d̶i̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶c̶t̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ petty revenge as the FO wants to get back at the Resistance while forming up larger forces. But a year later in The Rise Of Rey'd Shadow Legends, it has again shifted to s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ g̶e̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶r̶e̶c̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶J̶J̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶o̶l̶ ̶u̶n̶s̶o̶l̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶s̶t̶e̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶v̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶P̶a̶l̶p̶a̶t̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶B̶U̶T̶ ̶L̶O̶T̶S̶ ̶O̶F̶ ̶T̶H̶E̶M̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶t̶r̶o̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ random force bullshit because apparently that's all they think people want from these movies

Del_S
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I like how you went with ..."how strange the First Order-New Republic War is."

You were really constrained to make this as educational as possible and resisted with every fiber of your being to call it "fucking stupid"

ettubrute_
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this "war" is really just a series of insane asspulls. The first order pulls insane ammounts of material out of thin air and does something absurd with it. Then the resistance sweeps in and somehow pulls an even more insane uno reverse.
This litterally just repeats throughout all three movies.

1.starkiller destroys the entire NR instantly, and is then destroyed within hours
2. The first order suddenly has the military might to occupy the entire(???) Galaxy at once, but then the resistances breaks the rules of hyperdrives and destroys an entire fleet
3. Palpatine returns out of nowhere ("somehow") and now has a thousand death star destroyers, all of which are destroyed at once before doing anything

Freekymoho
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From a story writing perspective, I think one of the biggest weaknesses of the sequel trilogy was chronological.

In the original and sequel trilogies, its clear that key events are separated by at least a year each. This is never spoke out loud, but it creates an implicit assumption for the audience about how characters have changed and a few throw away lines can flesh things out. We can use out imagination and our suspension of disbelief to understand how event have progressed.

And honestly, this is a thing Lucas was actually good at.

But the sequel trilogy is caught in this weird, two film back to back, and then the last film a year later in the timeline. Which is both too little time for an epic War in the Stars, and doesn't really leave space to organically fill out what was going on . . .

It also just . . . really doesn't give the characters room to breathe.

Bustermachine
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There's also the fact that the new Star Destroyers being offered by the Sith Eternal each have a MAJOR design flaw. While they are each equipped with a cannon capable of destroying a planet, these cannons don't seem to have any armor whatsoever and if they are destroyed the entire Star Destroyer is destroyed with it.

The Sith Eternal took one of the most formidable ships ever put into service and turned it into a glass cannon that can be destroyed by a single fighter without any heavy weapons.

somerandomguy
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According to Disney it’s not the “new republic war “ it is the rebel vs empire war 2 electric boogaloo

AKA resistance vs first order

razorback
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This is why we need to see the Star Wars politics because they give context. Without them we have no idea who these people are or why they’re fighting

argus
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I felt like the sequel trilogy was trying to up the stakes in every episode, but usually in ways that just made no logical sense. Let's not just have a superweapon that can blow up a single planet at a time after a bit of careful manoeuvring and charging up, let's have a superweapon that can lob multiple planet cracking projectiles halfway across the galaxy at superluminal speeds! Then let's not just have a sizeable fleet of star destroyers, but an armada of thousands, equipped with enough firepower to blow the galaxy to pieces a thousand times over!

The problem in both these scenarios is they don't match the capabilities of what we'd expect such a force to have. The Death Star was portrayed as a difficult and expensive project even for a galaxy spanning Empire, possibly pushing the limits of their abilities and military capacity. And yet some scrappy band of extremists managed to build something at least 10x more impressive with a tiny fraction of the resources and power. And then a secretive religious cult manages to build a fleet that dwarfs what the Empire had at its peak.

It would be like if North Korea managed to build a fleet of 100 nuclear powered aircraft carriers and Islamic State launched a nuclear missile at the US with a payload that made Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker. It's ludicrous to think either of those entities would ever be in a situation where they can outclass global superpowers past and present with their military strength and technology. And yet, that's exactly what the First and Final Order manage to do in the Star Wars universe.

Croz
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As much as some people might not have liked seeing the Senate in the prequels, honestly it helped us understand the situations of the galaxy. Putting context on battles from planets like Kashyyyk asking for aid when they were invaded.

Voxrar