Richard Dawkins vs Ayaan Hirsi Ali: The God Debate

At the UnHerd-sponsored Dissident Dialogues Festival in New York, Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi Ali discussed her recent conversion to Christianity, and whether the whole ‘New Atheism’ movement of which they had both been key members had done more harm than good.

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// TIMECODES //

00:00 - 05:34 - Ayaan Hirsi Ali's conversion from atheism to Christianity, with Richard Dawkins' reaction
05:34 - 12:50 - Faith, religion, and personal experiences
12:50 - 21:54 - Christianity and its impact on society
21:54 - 31:34 - Faith, reason, and the role of religion in society
31:34 - 38:40 - Faith, religion, and truth
38:40 - 46:45 - The decline of Christianity and the rise of Islamism
46:45 - 55:27 - Morality, religion, and the role of Christianity in society
55:27 - 1:01:18 - Religion, atheism, and Islam
1:01:18 - 1:07:19 - Islamism and its impact on society

#UnHerd #AyaanHirsiAli #RichardDawkins

[NtandoNeshi-zcxy]

Man, well done to the Christians who have met Dawkins and treated him with so much love and respect that he said, ' I've never met a vicar that I didn't like. They're always very, very nice people.' 16:50

[ronburg]

I just love how they embrace at the start and finish. Nothing moves me more than two people who still care for each other deeply despite having differing opinions. This is how civil discourse should be done.

[samdung]

Her humility really is apparent, and it's inspiring to me, as a Christian who needs to be more humble. Lord help me! Also, I love how she articulated why miracles or supernatural occurences are no big deal if you choose to believe a powerful being like God exists. She's doing better than I am at explaining Christianity, and I am 20 years in.

[maureenwm]

God bless you Ayaan. I have been following you for years, read your books and I'm so glad that you are a born again Christian now.

[eithrick]

I live in the netherlands you hear for years the story of Hirsi Ali.. Muslims was talking bad about her always.. But after self researching and hearing her story and hearing how she talks about life and everything.. I have only respect for this woman She is a worrior for Jesus✝️

[OnlyASparrow]

This is a profoundly interesting conversation. I was an atheist and came to 'the end of myself' as Ayaan Hirsi Ali did. I prayed to know this God I'd heard about but hadn't yet experienced. That prayer was my invitation to the Beautiful One, Jesus, to come to me and he came. The longer I live, in humility, the deeper my relationship with YHVH, Jesus (Yeshua) and Holy Spirit grows. I pray that Richard Dawkins finds his way to his Creator. It would be a beautiful reunion. But as Ayaan has stated, "We have free will."

[billyb]

I think this is the epitome of faith in Christ. She can’t explain what happened in her heart, yet she knows it happened. It’s like a veil is lifted… I was blind… but now I see. “The message of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing.”

[PixiiBomb]

I think the way Dawkins feels about the misuse of Christianity (like the Crusades) he SHOULD feel about Ayaan's point about what atheism is doing to the culture and to the young people.

[wesleytilley]

The obnoxious clapping when each side thinks their team has scored a point is annoying and a sign of the times. I’d be curious to know how many people in the crowd were actually open to having their mind changed that day or if they were there just to confirm their bias.

[bridgetsimpson]

my favorite part, when she said I find that Christianity is about love and redemption and that she had felt reborn again! thts powerful.

[praesche]

I didn‘t know this woman before. She‘s absolutely fantastic and right about so many things. The fact, that she publicly admits and regrets her mocking of religion shows she has a humbled heart, something only God can do. God bless her!

[reasonableman]

You can actually feel this powerful spiritual enlightenment about this woman. This calming, convincing, peaceful and gentleness in her voice.On the other, the guy sounds like a critic with less convincing argument.

[drjazz]

🎯 Key points for quick navigation:

00:01 *🌟 Introduction to Speakers and Background*
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's journey from Somalia to the Netherlands and her shift from Islam to atheism and then Christianity,
- Richard Dawkins' prominence as an atheist and his public response to Hirsi Ali's conversion.
03:43 *😔 Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Personal Crisis and Conversion*
- Hirsi Ali's struggle with depression and self-loathing leading to a turning point through prayer,
- Her newfound faith in Christianity and the sense of connection and humility it brought.
06:53 *🤔 The Nature of Belief: Dawkins and Hirsi Ali*
- Dawkins questions the literal belief in Christian doctrines such as the resurrection and virgin birth,
- Hirsi Ali's perspective on faith as a choice and the wisdom she finds in Christianity's teachings.
12:02 *🌍 Christianity, Islam, and Western Civilization*
- Hirsi Ali discusses Christianity's role in countering Islam and supporting Western values,
- The difference between personal belief and societal impact of Christianity.
18:18 *🏛️ The Cultural and Moral Debate*
- The consequences of secularizing society and the vacuum it creates,
- Dawkins and Hirsi Ali explore the coexistence of reason and faith.
29:10 *🎻 The Role of Faith and Reason*
- The discussion on how faith and reason can coexist and complement each other,
- The impact of faith on human connection and civilization, and Dawkins' perspective on atheism's role.
31:17 *🌱 The Nature of Faith and Truth*
- Discussion on the difference between comfort from faith and the truth of existential claims,
- The debate on whether the comforting aspects of religion make its existential claims true.
33:46 *💭 Life After Death and Cultural Christianity*
- Exploration of beliefs about life after death and the concept of a soul,
- Dawkins' stance as a cultural Christian and the discussion on the utility of religion in society.
37:26 *⚖️ Islam, Christianity, and Societal Influence*
- Hirsi Ali and Dawkins discuss the societal impact of Christianity and Islam,
- Concerns about the influence of Islam in Western societies and the perceived decline of Christian influence.
42:08 *📜 Enlightenment and Secular Humanism*
- Debate on the origins of secular humanism and its relationship with Christianity,
- Discussion on the moral framework provided by religions versus secular humanism.
50:15 *🔍 Comparing Holy Books and Moral Teachings*
- Comparison of the teachings of the Bible and the Quran, especially concerning morality,
- Discussion on the unique characteristics of Jesus and Muhammad in their respective religions.
56:48 *🚨 Concerns About Radical Islam and Wokeism*
- Shared concerns about the spread of radical Islamist ideologies in the West,
- Discussion on the impact of these ideologies on university campuses and the response to global events.
01:00:22 *🌐 Clash of Civilizations*
- Discussion on the idea of a clash of civilizations and the lack of a counter-message from secular or atheist humanism,
- Concerns about the denial of cultural conflict and the rise of Islamist ideologies in Western societies.
01:02:47 *🛑 Muslim Rebellion and Reform*
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's outreach to Muslims and ex-Muslims, encouraging awareness of the dangers of Islamist ideologies,
- Emphasis on the need to oppose totalitarian ideologies that exploit freedoms to promote their agendas.
01:05:19 *🚨 Warning Against Islamist Threats*
- Ali's warnings about the potential consequences of Islamist ideologies gaining power, referencing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas,
- A call to recognize and combat these threats to prevent the spread of barbaric practices.
01:06:21 *💉 Vaccination Metaphor for Ideological Combat*
- Dawkins' metaphor of combating harmful ideologies with a "mild form of the virus" versus advocating for rationality and enlightenment,
- The conversation concludes with this analogy, highlighting different approaches to addressing ideological threats.

Made with HARPA AI

[simpleselfhelp]

Thanks so much for organizing this conversation. And also big thanks to the man in the middle. Great questions. Exactly what I needed clarification on.

[rahulbats]

people in debates like this should be banned from clapping and cheering

[tonihan]

Just because he says it’s not true doesn’t mean it’s not.

[georgemacintyre]

The test of a 'Christian' is not so much a theological or even a Christological assertion that can fit into a neat 'orthodoxy', but that they can convey, somehow, the living Christ to another person, and this woman does that for me in an extraordinary and real way .

[wisdom]

The hugs ( at the beginning and the end) are SPEECHLESSLY THE BEST segment of the entire show, it shows warmth friendship between the twos .

[luizacampos]

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14

[leavesfromthevine]

I totally sympathize with her, her experiences and the psycological pain, I totally get it. And I don't feel bad at all or take pity on her for feeling better through becoming christian. However, what I don't support at all is spreading the idea that what helped her individual situation, is good for the general public, especial coming from a person who spent a portion of her life researching, understanding and spreading the reasons of how this thing (that helped her) caused so much bad things to the world at the same time. I get the point "ok something is controversial, it has pros and cons but individually I can't find something else to help my case, this thing.. it fills my inner purpose, I will compromise with it and embrace it" but I struggle with "that thing is for everyone since it helped me, I will now turn my head the other way on everything bad that it does and I trully know and have experienced because it is a lesser evil in a world of many other evils". It is also exactly how pseudoscience spreads: Ι experience something controversial helping me in some way and I generalize it and spread the idea that if it helped me, it will help everyone, although it can't be grounded with evidence. Also, I despise that she turns against atheism, vilifying it, saying that she used it to make wrong in the world and giving it characteristics and purposes it does not really have and which she knows very well of.

For me it's sad what she's doing.
Where she is wrong:
1. Atheism isn't creating or leaving a vacuum by critisizing religion. A culture of filling this space with religion by default, is what is creating the vacuum and it can surely be filled with some kind of spirituality based in truth, around humanism and rationalism. You can find purpose through communion with others, helping the general public and good, discovering more truth about our world and enjoying it and it's truth and beauty so far. You really don't need religion to feel higher purpose as we may used to be doing in the past.

2. Atheism doesn't have to create something, isn't responsible for any gap that is created (or who is to fill it) and its purpose isn't to find something to replace the gap of religion. It's purpose is to spread the truth, to critisize the wrong in the common concept in all religions, to show that even if it offers some goods, it also creates and has created bad and a lot of it. In this stage of our civilization we don't need to lie to ourselves to feel better, some time in the past maybe it was needed but even then it wasn't perfect and it did not even outbalance the bad side of it.

3. Although atheism isn't responsible and it's not its purpose to fill some gap, it usually does fill it, partnering with other things and other ideologies. Science, logic, skepticism, humanism, non-religious philosophy and so on.

4.There isn't that much space taken over by islamism in the west. She misinteprets solidarity with palestinians. Students in america aren't being turned into islamists. No queer person is becoming islamist or affiliated in anyway with islam. The situation is an empathetic solidarity with a whole group of people in opression and an apartheid kind of state. If a future state of Palestine turns islamistic, which is a very probable scenario, it will be critisized. But, you can't really critisize them right now, at this stage of opression, of utmost poverty and homelessness. Give them a right to live, be free, live humanely, then feel free to critisize them if they turn to bigotry and inhumanity. Of cource I'm not talking about Hamas, that is a terrorist organization and all these people of the west already critisize it.

5. The downward path of morality, is filled by the already growing of west christianity and the advancement of right wing and conservatives, all over europe and the us. It's not so that atheism didn't manage to feel some gap that christianity left, but that it didn't manage to fight christianity substancially. West christianity is rising again and also wokeism, that is the only thing I agree with her.