Is Suno Sampling Copyrighted Producer Tags? (Audio Examples)

#aimusic #suno #sunomusic #djkhaled #jasonderulo #nickmira #cashmoneyap #copyright #mikewillmadeit #djmustard #lawsuit #riaa

0:00 Intro & Lawsuits
1:15 Suno Getting Sued
2:55 "CashMoneyAP" Tag
4:57 Producer Tag Examples
6:28 Compilation Tags
7:44 "Daytrip" Tag
9:13 3 Questions
10:05 Sampling on Spectrum?
11:21 Value of Data in AI?
13:46 We hold the gold

Wanna learn more about TV/Film Sync Licensing?

[BellicoseBard]

You know, as someone who has been experimenting with Suno for a few months now to see if it is possible to create original content using it, this actually explains much of the difficulty Ive been having getting Suno to cooperate. It seems to fight me every step of the way when I try to direct everything instead of letting Suno just do what ever it wants.

(that first paragraph pretty well sums up this whole comment so you can stop there if you are pressed for time and wont miss much. But if you want a detailed walk through of my experience using Suno and my process which I would describe as typical of a minority of Suno users who we could call Power Users, then read on!)

I always plan out every song I make in notepad first with a list of tags detailing very specific instructions for what I want it to create. I tell it what BPM I want, I specify pitch, I specify specific instruments to use and when to use them and even how to use them.
I actually did a ton of research into music terminology and listed as many terms as I could in my own custom glossary and I pick terms out of that to create new tags to instruct Suno with. I already knew a little bit about music theory and a little about a few different genres, vocal styles, and even music history. But after all my research I believe I have expanded all that meager knowledge I had to a much more competent level. And by the way I'm not a musician so I never had any reason to do that until I started using Suno. For what ever thats worth.

Since I started doing all of that I have improved my songs far beyond what most people on there produce. The majority of stuff produced on there is the musical equivelant of slop because even though it sounds impressive to first time listeners, once youve been on there a few months and listened to many many songs produced by many users most of them begin to sound the same, especially the vocals. Also the arrangements and compositions seem repetitive within each of the genres.

For example when people just put in a single genre tag and nothing else for style their song is going to sound very similar to the thousands of other songs that used the same simple genre style tag with no specific tags. When I make a song I choose the instrumentation, beats per minute, time signatures, key, pitch, chord progression, and much more. There are tons of other tags or terminology Suno understands and will actually use if you tell it to.

Ofcourse you have to actually understand what these terms signify and where and when to use them like for example some of them would only apply if you actually specified a specific instrument or set of instruments and some compositions are so common that you can just specify whatever the commonly used term for that is and Suno will understand.

You can also specify mood or emotion terms and it will try to arrange everything to create that dynamic and structure to fit that based on the instrumentation and other things you specified. And then of course on top of all that I use my own lyrics I wrote myself. And I also use the upload feature to upload my own sounds or vocals I made myself if I cant get Suno to accurely produce the vocal style or effect I want.

Anyway, the point here is that ultimately I did success to do what I set out to do. Which is to create original music. Suno does actually provide ways and means to create your own totally customized music if you are willing to put in the work. Which is why I thought it was ironic that the CEO said that about wanting to take the work out of making music.
Well he certainly did that for all those who simply push the auto generate button to let Suno randomly generate some "musical" slop for them.

But with basically no documentation or tips from Suno on how to instruct their ai with specific tags it understands in order to customize and create original music it is actually a ton of work to do that in Suno. I have had to really put in hours of research and trial and error experimentation day in and day out to get it produce something I was happy with. And even then the app fought me the entire way through the process.

It actually got so frustrating that I was beginning to think that Suno made it that way on purpose so that users like me would be forced to throw out a lot more of the songs we tried to create and thus burn through our credits faster thereby force us to buy more credits to finish what we already invested so much time and effort into. Brilliant profiteering scheme.

But that didn't really make sense either because if that was their plan why do they make it so easy to just produce slop with the push of a button? So the vast majority of users don't put in the time and effort and waste credits trying to perfect a song they have in their head or on paper because they can just give up and press a button. Though I don't know how anyone could be satisfied doing that. If that was my only option I would have quit after day 1 and never looked back.

But after watching this video I think I understand what is really going on. The ai trained on this stuff and is trying to imitate its sources even when I am telling it everything it needs to do with very specific direction at every step. It fights me every step of the way trying to do its own thing. And apparently its own thing is to copy real musicians. Pretty disappointing.

[Essenger]

lmao yea this is the same as when they caught midjourney replicating artist signatures

[TransasaurusRexMusic]

I've been using it for a while, I haven't had that issue but then again I'm using my own lyrics :)

[Sputz]

I don’t think Suno just randomly spit those out. I think someone uploaded a producer tag and that’s what is spit back out.

[SunnyatMidnight-btbd]

You think the record companies etc want to be able to use the music they own, not udio or anyone else, to generate their own AI ‘assets’ to plunder the works of songwriters artists and producers. Historically they’ve never been altruistic towards the people who create the music.

[lucaalbanesi]

"OMG Suno is evil! He's putting copyrighted content in the song I've generated!"
"You're putting copyrighted lyrics on Suno. I wonder who is more evil now."

[sergeysuokas]

it is obvious that these companies are breaking the law, but it is also hard to imagine that these sites and technology will be destroyed just like that. perhaps the parties can come to some kind of compromise, as people are willing to pay money for this service, which means it is an additional source of income for copyright holders and labels. but let's hope that the laws are strict, because this abyss of music will be an unhealthy competition.

[daniellepreyar]

This video is jaw-dropping. You're doing great work Jesse. These companies need to be held accountable, this is disgusting and disturbing.

[sirhammon]

You pay a museum, to be able to go in and see the paintings. Some are free entry. The museum pays the artists for the exhibition, to draw people in. I go in, I see 5 paintings, I create a mishmash exhibition of my own. Not a problem. I buy music. I listen to 5 songs. I create a mishmash of those 5 songs. I record and put out my song. Not a problem. The problem comes when I sneak into the museum and don't pay. Or I pirate the songs. If Suno paid for downloaded copies of every song, then the artist gets money (granted it's a disgustingly small amount and completely unfair but that's another discussion). If they pirate it, then there's a problem.

What's the law say about the music they acquired? Did they use a permanent copy? If they streamed it, were they allowed to record a permanent copy? If not and Suno did create a permanent copy, that's a broken law. It's pretty black and white. If the act of missmashing becomes a copyright offence, then how many human artists will be sued?

Copyright doesn't protect an idea. It protects a tangible medium of expression of an idea. The actual object on a drive or tape or paper. Until if becomes tangible, there is no protection. So if they recorded a couple of words themselves, emulating a beat or 2 of a song, and did that for every single bit of music, and then wrote out songs as notation and trained the data on like notation and written music to be able to play, that's not a problem. Any human is allowed to do that. The AI could use the written analysis to compose a song and then use the samples they recorded to piece together a song. I personally would feel like I was doing something wrong if I sampled other people's songs, split them up into bits, and then created a song from the mini samples.

[AlmondTree-wi]

Makes you wonder how many other samples Suno reproduced that are less noticeable/identifiable. How many uncleared Splice samples did Suno spit out already? Without full licenses for everything that goes into it, it’s a minefield.

[copingflower]

kind of disgusting how these AI operate, its a similar problem with how every day of our life is archived through our data and sold off to companies like these to do who knows what with it

[farley]

Answers to your querstions:
1) There are beautiful studies shwoing how LLM's neural networks are suspiciously similar in efficiency and few other aspects to a lossy compression algorithms. So yes, technically they don't "store" any original data, but they store their kinda compressed fingerprints embedded inside the network's model's weights. Essentially they store a recipe to make something very very very very similar to the original data.
2) Yes. They did. They can't deny that forever. That makes judge's descision VERY dificult, tho. Because if they decide that a license should have been present, you'll see essentially a copyright shitstorm from every angle. Very few AI companies will survive that. The whole bubble might burst.
3) Yes. I call it a "remix machine". And if judge decides that copyright isn't needed for it's operation, I'm personally stopping to care about any copyright when remixing anything. If machine is allowed to do it, I want to be allowed to do it as well. And I won't be hesitant to use that precedent if they sue me.

[BOOMOPERAMUSIC]

the big 3 sue to get a piece of the pie.. not to kill the technology and protect the copyright.. will end same way like with spotify.. artists will get scraps from labels instead of shares in these ai companies

[basspartout]

It could not be more obvious!!! Unbelievable! As always, great work!

[bosnian.artillery]

Just tried this with couple of Balkan producer tags and I got a hit nearly each time ...

[codewizard]

The ML models are basically holograms. So depending on how you slice it it gives different views.

[kevinwilliams]

Like most things in life... It comes down to... It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Suno et al know exactly what they're doing! Sadly. 😒

[conhuir]

Maybe I haven’t got enough ‘skin in the game’ in terms of copyrighted music but respectfully I don’t really care about this kind of thing. I use suno as tool to help me write. I would never directly release anything I generate with suno and I think anyone that’s even slightly serious about music would either

[minaharkerofficial]

Thanx to people like you and Jay things get rolling in this matter, keep up the great work!!!

[jmi_music]

Just unbelievable….i’m still digesting this…it’s not even subtle. They don’t even seem to be synthesised versions. The tags sound exactly the same. 😳 how exactly does Suno work again?