Can There Be Meaning Without Free Will? | CosmicSkeptic

[rafi]

Nice, my question made it here :)
Idk in case anyone’s wondering I’m doing better now in that aspect

[Racerdew]

For me-and perhaps others have made similar remarks here-when I understood determinism and was recognizing that I had no free will, instead of framing the issue in a way that presupposes that my free will was suddenly lost-that I had been robbed of it-I realized that it in fact never existed to begin with.

I immediately recognized that nothing in my life had ultimately changed-any sense of meaning across all experience was still there-meaning therefore must be compatible without freewill-for my life has always felt meaningful despite never having freewill.

[mister_r]

A book isn't meaningless just because its characters have no free will. And a car trip can still be enjoyed even if you aren't the one behind the wheel.

[ZambeziKid]

I thought the title of this clip was - can there be meaning without free wifi?

[mephistophelesthesilentchi]

The fact that we can do what we want but not choose what we want, does nothing to diminish the awe, friendship, or happiness, we experience.

If anything, in my opinion, it should motivate us to better understand the underpinnings and impact of our desires on ourselves and our environment.

[konyvnyelv.]

The main reason people think free will is so necessary for meaning is because almost every ideology in the world promises us to be free and we have tried a lot of different ways in the last centuries to be as free as possible. But if there is no freedom at all, then living in North Korea is not different than living in a democracy (the difference is only subjective). You just feel that you are free in the latter but there is no theoretical need to fight for a freedom that doesn't exist.

[PerspectivePhilosophy]

I'm so glad you released this because my response to you is on the same topic!

[Yamikaiba]

The real question is: Can we have meaning WITH free will?

I can't conceive of it. Free Will removes all cause or reason from our actions, dis-associates it from what makes us thoughtful, reflective, storied, and inter-connected individuals.

Why did you do what you did? "Free Will made me do it, without cause, and without reason."
vs.
"I have a personality that I inherited from my parents and also the way I grew up, *tells a story about his Dad and Mum, and himself as a child*, and when I got to the situation, I was in a certain mood as I often am after work, when a seagull shat on me. I really made a scene. etc. etc.

Which answer is more meaningful? The Free Will answer or the Deterministic answer?

[TheGolfCommunity]

The illusion is thinking doing what you want will bring you happiness

[antoothbrush]

Hey Alex,
I’ve been waiting for this kind of question to be answered by you but I don’t quite think they are explaining the feeling as I (and many others) have felt after being presented with this reality. I understand how somebody could lose a sense of meaning, but for me, I’ve felt like I’m losing my identity and ability to be a functioning person. Because when somebody thinks of this idea of free will as an illusion and it really sticks, you begin to realize that you aren’t much of anything and making choices doesn’t really matter that much anymore. I’m glad you’re able to go about your day but I wish this video was a bit longer and went into depth about how this illusion can destroy ones desire to continue on making choices and feeling any sort of pleasure from them.

[dungeon-wngw]

It's really simple, and many people who have philosophy boners want to make it more complicated. Reality is either deterministic, indeterministic, or a combination thereof. Neither option gets you free will nor does a combination get you free will.

[Nimroc]

To me the issue of not having free will has never really been a problem because it doesn't actually change anything, it isn't as if I "lost" free will because I stopped believing in it, since the implication is that it wasn't there in the first place, so if something had meaning to me before it still does now, unless that changed for other reasons.
Similarly, the illusion of free will doesn't really go away just because you don't believe in it, in a sense you could say our whole consciousness is partially based on that illusion and probably can't really be removed from it.

[thesecondcoming]

this type of thinking is way above my level but I can’t stop watching your videos

[phaserra]

Wow, I've also been dealing with a similar feeling since you got me deep in thought about the absence of free will. So far has lead me further into nihilism.

[fecomate]

I don't think you understand the point. If I can't fail, I can't win. Traditionally a person would choose a task that they should complete (writing a poem, inventing something, destroying an enemy, getting married etc.) in order to feel happy (even if it's a temporary happiness). If they chose things that would help them obtain that goal, they were doing "the right thing". If they chose to do things that didn't help then they were doing the "bad thing". The reason you get out of bed every morning to work on these goals is because you want to do the right thing. If you have no choice there is no right or wrong decision since there aren't any decisions. You can't say a falling rock is obtaining it's goal of reaching the ground. The rock is just doing what it has to, no matter what. It's not doing the right or wrong thing. It's just doing the "only" thing. Similarly why should I get out of the bed, if no matter what, I will do the only thing, since I can do the only thing?

[KleenerBro]

There are two perspectives how to perceive the illusion of free will. You can feel like you're just a wave in the ocean - or you can feel you're the ocean. It's your choice (altough it's not ;) )

[halaldunya]

He/she is right though, if we don't have our own agency/free will, then any sense of accomplishment is an illusion and merit is worthless. Also what about those people that are predetermined to experience rape and abuse ? Extremely depressing, to know that they can't escape their terrible fate. If determinism is true, life becomes a prison that's unrelenting and sad.

[Bajo-xqhi]

there can't be meaning without free will

[mitkoogrozev]

"I like pursuing pleasures, and I don't like and avoid pain and suffering ", is such a non-argument for free will. A tautology. I guess the people who say it just haven't stumbled upon circumstances that will make them notice this. But it's pretty much like saying "I like liking things. I don't like things that I don't like" .

[webbe]

I think I find more meaning in a world without absolute free will than I would find in one with it.

When you think about it, humans kind of have this natural desire to find some kind of meaning in life, similarly to how we are naturally curious and seek for knowledge, or how we have a desire to survive.

Besides, if you were in control of everything you want, you could just choose to be passionate about something or choose to love someone, none of those feelings would be genuine in a world with literal free will. So following those feelings and desires and learning about ourselves and the reality as we perceive it offers completely valid meaning in life in my opinion.