Searle on Free Will #philosophy #determinism #freewill #searle

A clip of John Searle from many moons ago discussing free will.

#philosophy #freewill #determinism #searle

[salad_gold_rancher]

The menu is a great way of demonstrating that you dont have free will. Even if you manage to order something that isn't on the menu, your choice is still limited by the menu. Since the restaurant doesnt stock food the menu doesnt use. Same way, you define your free will against the backdrop of society or some system imposed on you against your will.

[ubet]

Determinism is true, and that is what really cannot be thought away. So-called free will is merely a function built within the chain of events of determinism.

[imoldthis]

He's describing a post hoc rationalization for decision making. It is not free will. There is no gap.

He also makes a common mistake for people arguing against determinism, which is to assume that if we were determined, we'd act differently - no, that would require free wil!

[HomesliceMcB]

I am only really learning about free will and determinism recently, so I am far from being someone who understands the implications of these arguments. So if my question seems misplaced then bear with me.

If determinism is true, does that mean our mind is under a sort of cognitive dissonance?

Irrespective of what we believe, our conscious mind acts as if we do have free will, as we deliberate and think about our choices. If I was always going to pick the BLT at a restaurant, I am unaware of that.

But then our subconscious, or the deterministic aspect of our mind has no concept of free will. It just acts in accordance with whatever happened previously.

[Archimedes_]

Is it _really_ necessary to act under the presupposition of freedom!? Might the illusion of free will itself be an illusion? Do we _really_ feel like we have free will, or do we just keep telling ourselves that we feel that way?

[Bensp]

The mind make up itself. There is no gap.

[Philo.sophyyy]

Does anyone have access to the full interview? I can’t find it anywhere.

[lonelycubicle]

I don’t think the following menu item I am about to order will be a decision driven by my consciousness, but by unconscious processes that will inform my consciousness after the decision is made by the unconscious self.

I’ll have chocolate ice cream.

There, how is Searle right?
Being serious, where is the freedom gap Searle mentions?

[mrnarason]

Searle should stop using his free will to sexually harassing his students

[davidcawthorne]

The decision after the gap is already determined in a deterministic universe. We can believe everything is determined. That does not preclude us making decisions. It's just that they are already determined
We are free to make choices but they are already determined. We do not pre suppose our own freedom. We just accept whatever choice we make it was already determined in a deterministic universe. 😊❤ Happy days.

[kallianpublico]

There are correlations, the rules of correlation, and the content of correlations. The rules of correlation are what gives us the notion of Determinism. The rules of math are deterministic. The rules of parenting are not.
Language is different from thought. There are rules of language: grammar. But grammar doesn't determine what we say, it governs how we say it. What determines what we say?1

[JuntusOrothon]

This old man doesn't get it. All those books behind him obviously didn't teach him much. Listen old man, whether or not it feels like we have free will is irrelevant. It's an illusion. All choices are a product of the inescapably casual chain. I know we act as if free will exists but it doesn't.

[ThatGuyQmei]

You are made of 17 elementary particles, just like everything else in the universe. They are governed by 4 fundamental forces (i.e: electromagnetism, gravity, the strong- and the weak nuclear force). you are literally made of the same material of everything else, and controlled by the same forces as everything else, there's no way around that.

Take this as an example: if we could simulate the univers beginning with the exact (no if, so buts, no coconuts; the exact same) parameters as this one did (be it any creation thory (e.g: God, the bing bang, what ever you believe)) this exact momemt in time and all prior and subsequent occurances would take place.

Picture a simulation of a simple pool (the one shooting balls with a stick into holes) game where we could determine the velocity and angle of the shot with 100% accuracy the outcome of the trajectory of the balls would be the same - regardless of how many times you do it.

[millerk]

If there were no consciousness the universe would be deterministic. Consciousness negates the supposition of "it could not have been otherwise."

[alwaysgreatusa]

Of course Searle, determinism is a theoretical position. Guess what ? So are a great many other philosophical positions -- like absolute idealism, Platonism, and pure mechanistic materialism. Practical life necessarily presupposes, not only the existence of free-will, but a real world outside the mind, the reality of space and time, and the real existence of both material objects and immaterial experiences. Philosophy sometimes opposes common-sense and takes it to task by questioning it. It's not a philosophical argument, Professor Searle, simply to say of a philosophical position that it's not practical for us to believe it. That misses the point of philosophy entirely.