Co2 Vs C25 mig gas: Lets test the differences

In this episode we tackle experiments with C02 gas.

0:00:00 Intro and book learning
0:05:29 lets weld, and inspect those welds
0:13:20 Conclusion

[rakentrail]

Greg maybe some day you can try some 90-10 to 98-2 on some thin sheet metal. (18 ga and thinner) I think a lot of DIY guys might be amazed how much easier the thin stuff welds with only a minimal amount of CO2 in the shielding gas. You're probably helping way more people than you realize. A friend of mine went to welding school as part of a retraining as his and 100's of other's jobs were moving overseas! The instructor just said, "here's the machine, have at it"! He was close to flunking out so we talked nightly on the phone. (he was 800 miles away at the time) He actually graduated at the top of the class. All I did was tell him, "try this, try that"! You can't teach a class drinking coffee and playing games on your phone! Fast forward 5 years and he's a welding foreman at a fab shop with over 150 employees!

[deltab]

Wow you just about made a MIG cutter!

I didn’t realize there could be such a deep and narrow band of penetration in the middle of a 75/25 short circuit MIG bead.

As always thanks for an interesting and educational video 👍

[Gyppor]

Thanks for the video Greg. I bought a bottle of CO2 a while back; I was a bit worried that I wouldn't like it and I'd be stuck with a 20 pounder. Since then I've decided to stick with CO2. I don't notice any more spatter (although I do see more on the nozzle), penetration is WAY better, I have a 250A machine and I get the most penetration out of CO2 mig, better than 7018. I'll keep my C25 bottle for sheet metal, or for projects where bead appearance is important. I do notice the C25 bead is smoother than the CO2 bead with fewer silicon deposits.

[grahamnielsen]

Been using Co2 for over 15ys after welding galvanized because of the better burn factor plus you also turn the gas down. Bonus x2 you save money in gas and better penetration win win

[makingmistakeswithgreg]

There will be a part two to this video where I do bend tests 😀

[robert.santore]

Very interesting results. I use C100 just because I always have CO2 ( homebrewer). I've had great results with it, so I've never had a reason to try C25. Now I appreciate it even more

[aaronburkhart]

Co2 works great for mill scale, plated steel, steel with light surface rust etc. 75/25 is for clean steel.
.045 @ 20.5v 150 wire speed
.045 @ 19.4v 125 wire speed
Those are my preferred settings on aluminized sheet steel.

[mkearn]

Quality information yet again Greg! I knew that 100% co2 burns alittle hotter, but for some reason I don’t use my bottle too much. About 15 years ago I bought a used millermatic 130 with a 200 cf bottle of 100%co2. I tend to use 75/25 just bc I’m more familiar setting. I’m not even sure what to expect whenever I try to get that co2 refilled. I often contemplate getting a bigger wire welder, but I always end up talking myself out of it. Realistically at the moment the firepower seems to be sufficient for my needs, but I’d like to have the ability to go higher. I’ve entertained the htp pro pulse 220 or the revolution 2500, but they both have a 220 amp max with mig. It kinda seems like more bells and whistles but only a touch more punch.

[signalmaintainer]

Interesting once again. One idea I had for some content was using C25 gas with flux core wire, such as ER70S-6 to get the effect of dual-shield wire. It would help with the porosity problem you get with flux core, but not sure what other effects it might have. Experimenting is the way to know for sure...

[Aldocello]

Great video right on time for me .Just got into welding, been a pipe fitter most of my life but never welding . hobbiest /diy home projects, been watching alot of vids, yours are amazing, and practicing with stick and flux core, so much fun ...but wanted to start with gas .I already have( 2) Co2 tanks that I can swap out /fill .... This video shows me I cant go wrong with C100, and alot cheaper for me

[garthland]

those Knipex pliers are the best, I have the older style off the MAC truck-nice and thin and they bite! I would spray but I just dualshield or lo-hi stick on thicker steel. I also learned something! thanks man, keep 'em coming!

[melgross]

So, as we spoke before, it’s interesting. Honestly, your C100 beads are exceptional. I haven’t seen that much penetration. Ok, so talking about strength. According to the ESAB wire charts, for wire recommended for C25 and C100, the C100 welds are:

Lower tensile strength. Less elongation and elasticity. More brittle. Possibly less resistance to rust. Recommendations are IF the weld specs allow for it, C100 is ok, but check as they may not allow. If they do, then compensation for lowered specs may be required.

[PaulSteMarie]

That strip of test welds reminds me—i would love to see a video on minimizing or correcting warping. Stuff like clamping until cool, applying post-heat with a torch, peening the welds with a hammer, etc. Do any of those actually work?

I periodically make additions to my toolholder rack for my lathe, and they just love to banana up.

I'm sure that applying two fat fillet welds to either side of the tabs doesn't help matters, but i have a hard time just applying a couple of half inch tacks on both sides 😑.

[Stan_in_Shelton_WA]

Good topic, good coverage, first time to your channel, subscribed.
My little welding projects (small trailers etc) I'd preheat and then weld, it helped my little hobby 240V wire feed get acceptable penetration. Lots of hassle though.

[richarcruz]

Incredible lesson Greg we appreciate u God Bless always….it’ll be interesting to compare it against Spray An dual shield flux core process thanks🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[michaelwhiting]

Great information Greg!

I noticed the C25 has a lot more Tan Soot, that seems to be more wide spread than the C100. Easily removed and not a concern, but curious why C25 even has that soot, and why the Co2 has less.

There is very little info out there about MIG’s Tan Soot and the inner black soot ring/edge to MIG welds. I keep thinking I’m not getting good gas coverage or a bad bottle and the tan/black soot is not consistent between various welds with approximately the same settings. I’ve tried rolling the c25 bottle around just incase the argon and Co2 have separated/settled to no avail.

It’s nice the spatter is roughly the same, but honestly I’m not all that worried about spatter as much as strength, and so I’m really looking forward to Part 2’s bend testing.

I know you are planning a separate revisit to the Dual Shield, and said you were going to try it with the Co2 as many viewer suggested. I don’t want to spoil any surprises, but could you please mention if getting a Co2 bottle would be advantageous for Dual Shield.

You now have access to a Miller Multimatic 215 at work. My 215 has a MIG with C100 setting, so I’m guessing it has the voltage and power required for using Co2 as a cover gas. Since Dual Shield aka E71T-1 is run DCEP, I’m really hoping my Miller 215 can run Dual Shield. I would love to see something along those lines in comparison to the standard MIG testing you are planning for part 2 and your Dual Shield videos.

Please email Miller 215 info if you don’t want to put any spoilers out yet. LoL

[mixpick]

Wow! I didn't expect THAT much of a difference. Very cool --thanks! If I can find tanks (at a non-insane price) AND a place to fill them, I hope to try MIG instead of flux core and stick that I use now. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy both flux core and stick when I'm welding outside but I wouldn't mind cutting down on the smoke when I'm welding inside. Lol

[dealinwithit]

I learned on co2 and still use only c02 and I weld in my home garage with a 180 machine on mostly 3/16

[BobWolford-qb]

Great, informative video, as usual. I happen to be a chemistry major, so I'm really interested in what is happening with both gases "chemically" in this process- I calculated the atomic weights of each, and as it turns out the straight CO2 is slightly heavier than C25, but not by much. Probably has something to do with the fact that with the straight CO2, there's more free electrons flying around in the gas, whereas with the C25 mix, but definition there are much less free electrons flying around because the Argon is inert. But that's just my guess.

[jab]

Greg, if that gas is from where I think it is, they are the best welding and gas supplier I have done business with. I drive out of my way to buy from them!