Why “Anti-Racism” is the Worst Form of Racism | Coleman Hughes | EP 474

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with author, podcaster, and opinion columnist Coleman Hughes. They discuss his latest book, “The End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America,” why color blindness should be re-implemented as a cultural goal, the Marxist actors who have deliberately moved to repel it, the need for a meritocratic system, and instances when racial discrimination is appropriate.

Coleman Hughes is an author, podcaster, and opinion columnist who specializes in issues related to race, public policy, and applied ethics. Coleman’s writing has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, National Review, Quillette, City Journal, the Spectator, and the Washington Examiner. He appeared on Forbes 30 Under 30 list in 2021. In 2019, Hughes testified before the U.S. House Judiciary subcommittee at a hearing on reparations for slavery. In 2024, Hughes released his first book, “The End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America.” He has appeared on prominent TV shows and podcasts including “The View,” “Real Time with Bill Maher,” “The Joe Rogan Experience,” and “Making Sense with Sam Harris.” Hughes is a columnist at the Free Press and a contributor at CNN.

This episode was recorded on August 8th, 2024

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- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(0:30) Intro
(3:42) It’s been four years: podcasting, writing, and “The View”
(6:09) The origins of racial color blindness
(11:11) Psychological markers for performance: success has nothing to do with race
(17:55) The crowning achievement of the civil rights movement
(20:29) Valid situations in which to racially discriminate: information and stakes
(24:54) Defaulting to stereotypes, in-group favoritism and it’s proper place
(28:10) Ethnic tribalism, proper taboos, and rekindling humor to break resentment
(36:27) From aristocracy to meritocracy … and back again
(39:09) A profound source of hope, color blindness is inherent
(41:26) The impossibility of equal outcomes, setting people up to fail
(50:18) Hiring for the wrong reasons
(52:59) When your enemies create your terminology: meritocracy and capitalism
(55:02) The false correlation between intelligence and morality
(59:37) The disparity of IQ and the cultural worship of intellect
(1:06:07) Steel-manning the opposition, the grift of Ibram X. Kendi
(1:12:26) Layers of pretext: my virtues, my race, me
(1:15:45) Discerning your own base motives
(1:20:46) When Coleman Hughes broke “The View”
(1:23:33) Any movement to unite us will be deterred by the Marxists
(1:24:49) Communism has a terrible track record, so they switched from economics to race
(1:28:09) “The End of Race Politics”

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[michellerussell]

Coleman is so level headed, intelligent and eloquent. Wish there were more people like him who shape our world.

[ForeverYoungKickboxer]

The theme of colorblindness was never about denying the existence of race but about making an individual's race irrelevant when judging their character or qualifications. When people say, “I don’t see color, ” they are expressing the ideal that race should not determine how one treats or evaluates another person. Misinterpreting this intent as a denial of racial issues is a severe misunderstanding. This form of "anti-racism" that insists on constantly emphasizing racial categories, rather than focusing on treating individuals equitably regardless of race, is counterproductive and antithetical to the goal of uniting people.

[VodkaRob]

If anyone can question this discussion negatively they have something seriously wrong with them. Two of the most insightful and genuine people I have ever seen.

[danieldenton]

I was a fan of Coleman Hughes since I saw him making the women on The View look bad. He is a smart man and can think for himself. We need more men and women like that.

[robertjensen]

Everyone seems to be in such a hurry to scream 'racism' these days. A customer walks into an establishment and asks, "In what aisle could I find the Polish sausage?" The clerk looks at him and says, "Are you Polish?"

The guy (clearly offended) says, "Well, yes I am. But let me ask you something. If I had asked for Italian sausage, would you ask me if I was Italian? Or if I had asked for German Bratwurst, would you ask me if I was German? Or if I asked for a kosher hot dog would you ask me if I was Jewish? Or if I had asked for a Taco, would you ask if I was Mexican? If I asked for some Irish whiskey, would you ask if I was Irish?"

The clerk says, "Well, no, I probably wouldn't!"

With deep self-righteous indignation, the guy says, "Well then, why did you ask me if I'm Polish because I asked for Polish sausage?"

The clerk replied, "Because you're in Home Depot."

[ashleyallen]

I’m a Postpartum RN in suburb of Atlanta Georgia. A lesbian woman I work with went to HR and told them she was very offended I stated “Our borders are wide open”. Every patient on the floor that wkend spoke zero English.i was not being racially insensitive, I was stating a fact. I was made to sign a paper saying I was racially insensitive and also had to take a mandatory DEI class 1 hr away for 3 hrs. I was caught off guard and delirious from working 2 night shifts in a row. The same RN has done so many incident reports on coworkers. She told management the secretary made homophobic comments. She is a perpetual victim and rewarded for her abhorrent behavior. I just had to take another DEI course on a zoom call. The leader went by they/he pronouns and kept saying “as a marginalized trans man” bla bla bla. I’m legitimately over this crazy clown world. I work for a reputable hospital and it baffles me how they think this is a logical ideology. I’m with your guest…color should not be a factor it’s your qualities that matter!!!

[WavesofJava]

Coleman is an American hero. MLK would be proud of him. He speaks with integrity and honesty in a calm, cool manner.

[afringedgentian]

Dearest Dr. Peterson I am OVERJOYED that you spoke with Coleman! Perhaps you may have been too sick to remember, but Coleman was one of the first people you spoke with on Mikhaila’s podcast when you first came back into the public. You were extremely ill and fragile but you enjoyed the conversation with Coleman, and I remember thinking as I watched that Coleman was going to be a great intellectual one day.
And he is. And now you have your health back and can properly enjoy a conversation with him and I am so, so, so glad.
I am just coming back from a day at the beach and the oceanarium with my kids and will be listening later tonight.
With Ruth Anne’s love.

[purplesquirrel]

Why does skin color matter if not to perpetuate racism? “The only lives that truly matter are those who respect the lives of others“.

[Snibble]

Same goes for anti "hate" speech in my opinion. We don't need a ministry of forbidden words!

[janinesnyder]

…I love how you described the spread of an idea as “metastasized”. So good.

[Gumbatron]

On the matter of job interview tests. I work as a software developer, when we are looking for new developers we use a practical test, applicants who pass the first round of CV review are sent a small set of questions.

About 80% of applicants don't even bother to do it, these people are either very low in conscientiousness or overstated their abilities in their CV. Of the ones who do attempt the tests, the ability to solve problems a well as the consciousnesses of the person is often very clear. Even down to code formatting and comments. Neat, tidy and logically thought out code will stand out.

This method has generally worked very well for us over the years.

[randomcertainty]

Affirmative action politically developed into entitlement activism over the decades.
A 'victim' with a justified vendetta agenda, incorporated into discriminatory social acceptance.

[mikelee]

It all just comes back to treating people as indiciduals rather than as groups .

[isaiahDK]

The correct term for “Anti-Racism” is “Counter-Racism”, as it's about fighting racism with racism.

[gillian]

"One day, a man will be judged by the content of his character, not the colour of his skin." Martin Luther King

(Or words to that effect).

[RoddyFuhr]

Orwell called this doublespeak, and his books were about communism.

[gaylehudson]

It is not in any way reversed. it is straight forward Race-based vitriolic hate and vengeful retribution on people who had less than nothing to do with any suffering by others, ever.

[johnquiroz]

You can't fight against racism. Only discrimination

[vardenkenzei]

Leftists were never against bigotry; they just wanted to be the ones to wield it.