The Kardashev Scale and Beyond

An exploration of the Kardashev scale, its implications on civilizations and our future, and the extensions to the scale that govern control of a universe, or multiple universes.

My Simulation Theory Video:

Papers:

Kardashev, Nikolai (1964). "Transmission of Information by Extraterrestrial Civilizations". Soviet Astronomy.

"Long Futures and Type IV Civilizations", Galantai, 2003

[AppiusOS]

The notification on my phone said "The Kardash..." and I was worried for a second you were going to start talking about how reality TV might be proof of alien life

[ApertureThinking]

I also made a video about this a few weeks ago. Nice to see another perspective.

[freyathor]

Since finding your channel i have become addicted!! I love all your videos and have a hard time choosing which one to watch next!

[NicosMind]

I cant be the only person thinking that calling Earth .7 is extremely generous. Yet a few here in the comments have happily accepted that as our rating.

[Radioman]

You have the perfect voice for these types of videos.

[MrPianMann]

Thank you for your videos. I often use them as bedtime stories and it's very nice to listen to your ideas and calming voice.

[AnonymousFreakYT]

The detection problem is exemplified by the Federation from Star Trek. It could be that advanced civilizations have figured out a means of communication that we simply don’t know about at all, like Star Trek’s “Subspace communication.” Our own ability to communicate has undergone such a shift in just the past 150 years. Prior to the invention of devices to use radio waves to communicate, if humans wanted to communicate over long distances quickly, light was the only possible method - semaphore, smoke signals, signal lights, etc. A human from 150 years ago would have zero way of knowing that two people were communicating with each other on the moon via radio, even if their radios were loudly transmitting.

[daxxonjabiru]

So glad it's not the 'Kardashian' scale.

[caricue]

The Kardashev scale seems like a relic of the industrial revolution. It imagines a straight line into the future with bigger and bigger machines making more and more stuff. We are already well into the information age, and while we still make unimaginable amounts of stuff, the future would seem to belong to information. Virtual Reality especially.

[KingV]

This was amazing, I never knew about the Kardashev Scale and this blew my mind thinking about the possibilities. Saving this video as well as subscribing

[wildman]

Thank you for sharing these abstracts and your thoughts with us! This video is a perfect reason why I think concerns over much of the Fermi Paradox might be premature. It is totally possible we are still not technologically developed enough, alien civilizations' technologies do not project correctly over our assumptions of futurism and may actually be so biologically, philosophically (including or excluding shared cultural goals) or technologically different from us we may be overlooking them or just barely understanding how to look for them to begin with.

[Toni-loms]

Beyond Kardashev, my God. I think in science fiction terms and may eventually find the discipline to write something I feel is worthy of publishing but Universal and Multiversal societies never occurred to me. Mind dangerously close to blown.

[audreejamie]

Awesome video!! So happy that I found your amazing channel!!

[robmoffett]

One of the reasons the inhabitants of Earth are interested in finding other planets to colonize is that we are definitely outgrowing our existing home. To the question "would an advanced civilization even be interested in the universe at large", if that civilization had learned to live within the means provided by their planet (or even their solar system) and were using non-carbon-based energy sources (like solar and wind) to their fullest potential, then why would they be interested in the rest of the universe? They may certainly be aware of the universe and may even have extensive knowledge of it (and even the ability to travel to other parts of it), but maintain an indifferent attitude toward that knowledge and ability. Or at least, only have an interest in the knowledge that has a direct effect on their existence, like the trajectory of comets that may collide with their world(s).

After all, a disposition toward continued growth means a constant set of problems to overcome. More inhabitants need more energy and more food and more space which in turn allows the population to continue growing which then requires more energy and more food and more space which allows the population to keep growing which then requires...you get the point. After millions of years of repeating that cycle, a civilization may certainly come to the conclusion that, if it just stops growing, it won't continue to have these problems.

Side note: The evolution of a civilization from type 0.1 up through type 3 (and even beyond) would make a great simulation game. #electronicarts

[maxisk]

Finally someone who actually points out the flaw in this scale. If a civilization reached a point where it could harness energy from a star directly, it would be logical that they would need to find a way to use energy more efficiently to allow them the ability to build the dyson sphere. But if your energy consumption is that efficient, then is a dyson sphere even necessary at that point? There's also another theory I'd like to throw out there. What if the universe isn't being controlled by a type 4 civilization, but is a being itself? If the cells in your body could be sapient, they would perceive your body as the entire universe. We may be doing the same to a being much larger.

[deusexaethera]

Miniaturization seems like the more sensible long-term approach, provided a civilization wants to try to live as long as possible. However, since we still live in the stelliferrous era of the universe, in the short term it would make more sense to harness as much energy as possible while it's still easy to find.

[Maddog]

Honestly, extending the Kardashev Scale past 3 is more naval gazing than anything. As you've noted, there'd be no real way of even recognizing them let alone interacting with them any more significantly than an atom interacts with a nuclear physicist.

[ttextinction]

Congratulate on .3! That's awesome

[matthewgrotke]

It's worth noting that Sagan came up with a more measurable version of the Kardashev scale (since solar outputs vary). He defined a K1 civilization as one who utilizes 1*10^16 watts of power. A K2 uses 1*10^26 watts. A K3 uses 1*10^36 watts. The total world power consumption is about 17*10^12 (17 terawatts) which is a "K 0.0017". Not sure where the "K 0.7" comes from, but it could be because Sagan calculated the scale logarithmically and I think I'm calculating it linearly.

[tfsheahan]

Excellent video, but I have a question. Do you think there's anything to the concept of harnessing zero-point energy, assuming it actually exists? Talk about a game changer. You just tap into the quantum froth energy that keeps the universe from collapsing back into itself, if my understanding is correct. You don't need to take fuel with you, just use the energy already there. How would that kind of civilization look to us?