Why Protoss race is BROKEN in StarCraft 2

Sources:
Timecodes:
00:00 What's it about
00:19 The issues with Protoss Race
01:15 Race Design in StarCraft 2
02:13 Why Protoss is both Weak and OP
04:40 What's the main problem with Protoss and how to fix it
Music:
#sc2
#starcraft
#starcraft2
#esports

[EsportsStoryteller]

Timecodes:
00:00 What's it about
00:19 The issues with Protoss Race
01:15 Race Design in StarCraft 2
02:13 Why Protoss is both Weak and OP
04:40 What's the main problem with Protoss and how to fix it

[korakys]

Every Protoss ground unit does big, slow damage. None are fast firing. It means small Protoss armies get overwhelmed easily so they have to remain with the deathball.

[Lith]

I remember, when I was just entering Starcraft, I started playing protoss for their aesthetics and the feeling that it heavily relies on casters in order to win fights. I wish they had more ability variety instead of that deathball tactic

[masterchaosforge]

I actually felt really bad for Creator when I saw that clip live. He was so distraught :/

[glados]

The nexus's recall range used to be much bigger than it is now. Ive always played Terran because I love how they are only limited by how fast you want to burn out your wrists. One protoss player proxied a nexus beneath my ledge in the main in the fog, then recalled his army right onto the ledge. I watched the replay and admired his creativity. Now I am sad because I wish so badly that someone had done that against Idra in a pro game. The sale wouldve been unbelievable.

[mlemmage]

This reminds me of the mothership core, and why it was a weird addition in the first place
Originally, it was supposed to help Protoss in the early game because back then, Zealots and Stalkers were too weak to hold off attacks from Terran and Zerg. But instead of buffing Zealots and Stalkers, they added a new unit that you can only get one of that is decent, but it didn't fix much. They eventually removed the mothership core and buffed Zealots and Stalkers, but both still feel way too weak compared to marines and banes even in the late game. I think Warp Gate ultimately breaks Protoss as a race, as it breaks the balance of Gateway/Tier 1 units

[abrahamlincoln]

Terran is insanely supply efficient in the late game, with 160 army supply because of all the orbitals and MULEs, whereas toss is often stuck at 130 with worse eco

[Dienekes]

There's just a lot wrong with Protoss. Now, the idea behind them I think was actually really cool. They were designed to be strong but micro-intensive in battle. Zerg was supposed to be micro-intensive in economy with Queens and creep tumors and all that, while Terran was in the middle. And so Protoss got caster units incredibly early. But, unfortunately, this concept doesn't scale well. Trying to get the maximum potential out of adepts, stalkers, and sentries quickly becomes inefficient when compared to a bio ball or zerg run in. They could find ways to buff those units so it does become efficient. But doing that would also mean Warpgate / Prism drops become more powerful. So, you can't do that. Which leaves ground Toss to instead trade up to bigger units to micro like disruptors and high templar, and babysitting colossus. While not using the high cost early units effectively anymore. So that huge swath of actually fairly skill intensive units gets turned to chaff, to be replaced with units that are largely less engaging but necessary to win actual fights.

Or, they abandon ground and take an even worst solution, going into skytoss. Which is another issue, because it roughly mirrors the same pattern of problems. Phoenixes and oracles are arguably the best designed and microable early air units in the game. But they don't scale well either (though oracles do transition to detector/scouts) meaning the toss player must rely on the big dumb but strong carriers, void rays, and tempests.

This is noticeably completely backwards from how other races are structured. Early zerg is largely a move, with you know, a few ravagers to mix things up. And marines and marauders have some micro, but they don't really get the boost until stim and medivacs get added to the mix. But then they expand their micro options with the game usually pushing the best players toward adding additional caster units and creating multiple strike forces to hit at separate times.

It's sad to say since Toss is my favorite race. But I really do think it needed a whole rework from the ground up. The theory of a race that is battle micro focused from the start with less emphasis on economic mechanics isn't terrible. But the way to do that needed to be to start a little more than the other races and expand them further over time, rather than to narrow them.

[gureguru]

protoss was designed to have the most value per mineral spent, quality > quantity. if you let them expand and macro and build a bazillion units they can literally attack move and win, like in lower elos

[CodeNameLL]

Why not add some T2 or T3 upgrades to zealot and stalkers like the adrenal one for zerglings

[kenners]

I love how drops are considered a super important and viable strategy for terran, but are a gimmick for protoss

[Valinrista]

I've stopped playing SC2 Years ago, fell back into the rabbit hole recently, glad to see some things never change and that despite having stats to prove Toss is on the weaker side of the balance people still call it broken and OP years after years for decades

[sleeper]

Toss issues all stem from the warp-in mechanic.

Gateway units are balanced around potential rushes and timings using warp-in which negates most defenders advantage. To achieve this balance, Toss T1 units are tuned comparatively weak so that they don't kill zergs and terrans too easily with rushes and timings.

But with weak T1 units, toss needs strong T2 units to survive the mid game. Disruptors, Colossi, Voidrays, Templar etc are very strong but only work as part of a big group where they can be protected - ie the deathball.

The highly concentrated army (the deathball) is straightforward to control but difficult to control against. Below pro level, it's frustrating to play against and at pro level it doesn't provide the Toss players enough opportunities to express their skill through superior control.

[Green_Corsair]

You failed to mention that protoss units always cost more not only in both minerals and gas, but also in supply, which means Zergs and terrans still have more units in the lategame. Also protoss has been repeatedly nerfed for a long time, it was a running joke in my friend group, that in legacy of the void, the protoss expansion, Protoss was the weakest race. I honestly think that the identity of Protoss as "the lategame race" was very healthy, because the protoss army is also very slow, so it's relatively easy to punish it by surrounding or outmaneuvering it and then it basically becomes a positioning battle. The problem of course is if that is not possible, but I believe it can be achieved.

For me personally, I stopped playing when Zerg became the best lategame race. Such a drastic shift in identity of races shouldn't be done in any game imo.

[marshmallowbop]

I feel like Astrea summed it up very well in one of his interviews. The whole race seems to be balanced around the disruptor (and other gimmicky units). Redesigning these and then rebalancing the race afterwards would be the right way imo.

[Metaspace]

VEry good analysis. I think on of the things contributing to the Protoss balance problems was LotV, since when the game starts much faster with much stronger economy, getting to death balls or huge timing attacks much faster then before. In earlier times, the beefy early and mid game units of Protoss would give you value for a longer time, allowing you get ahead of the opponent through good trades.

[-Raylight]

This is why we have *"Beating grandmasters with stupid stuffs"*
So we can fully explore the hidden potential of Protoss 🤣

[darkstrike]

Protoss is the most rock-paper-scissors race. It lacks a solid gateway army base, Zeolots are melee, Stalkers are fragile. Gateway units lose straight up vs Terran and Zerg base armies so leans heavily on tech units like storm or colossus to bridge the gap.

This puts all your eggs in one basket because if your colossus or storms die you loose, incentivizing the ball to protect them. And sometimes you just lose because you went colossus and the zerg went spire...should have built a stargate cause now you build-order lost.

This sort of adds to the above, toss lacks flexible defenders advantage, Terran has bunkers, range, tanks and terrain. Zerg has Queens and speed on creep. Toss only has a shield battery.

The solution to toss is to give them a real defenders advantage and a solid gateway army. Either baseline or via T1 upgrade give the units/buildings within the radius of a nexus a buff like shield armor. Next, Move the immortal to the gateway, with stats adjusted accordingly, to give toss an actual power unit in gateway that challenges other armies on the ground, with this stalkers can do more vs light units to give some answer to build order loss.

My 2cent rambllings.

[annsaiko]

The problem here is that strong pro players can beat protoss deathballs whereas the average player cannot due to the amount of micro that is needed.

[JohnMelon]

The answer as to why Protoss is weak on the pro level is very very VERY simple. They nerfed Zealots to the grave. Remember +30 chargelots? Yeah, give Protoss back their original ICONIC unit, just this one singular buff, and Protoss would be highly competitive again.