Tomatoes, or How Not To Define 'Art'

[lunab]

If some people stopped substituting the word "art" with "an absolute masterpiece" in their heads, they would find life much more enjoyable

[heorgegarrison]

“This is not a tomato, this is a metaphor”
are you sure, it resembles a tomato pretty well

[Erika-gntv]

It ain't art until it's started a flame war.

[mewbusi]

"Nothing can't be art"

I chuckle to myself as I begin drawing the word nothing onto a canvas.

[joaopedroauriemo]

The biggest three letter word in the English language is “big”

[U.Inferno]

*Strength* is being able to crush a Tomato in your hand.
*Dexterity* is being able to dodge a thrown tomato.
*Intelligence* is knowing a Tomato is a Fruit.
*Wisdom* is knowing to not put a Tomato in a fruit salad.
*Charisma* is being able to sell a Tomato based fruit salad.
*Constitution* is being able to not throw up after eating a Tomato based fruit salad.

D&D stats simplified.

[sarahharman]

Small brain: it's a vegetable
Big brain: it's a fruit!
Ascended brain: it's a metaphor.

[InnuendoStudios]

For the purposes of this essay I am speaking a little reductively about a few things. Technically, mathematics is a bit more cultural than we often let on, and the definition of "fruit" is even more complex then I allude to. Please don't think these are points you need to "correct." By all means, expand on the conversation in comments, but let's try not to be smart-asses about it. <3

[Gleamiarts]

Art is subjective.

Vegetables are subjective.

I think I'm having an existential crisis

[goldmoogle]

I like Brian Eno's definition of art: "art is anything you don't have to do"
He elaborates saying things like we have to speak, we don't have to write poetry; we have to move but we don't have to dance- etc. etc.

[voltairinekropotkin]

The point at the end about _caring_ about the subject in a definitional argument, when you're not an expert, brings it all home. Especially in the internet age.

So many people – without doing the remotest research – are willing to argue into the ground about a definition just to feel validated in thinking they've proved someone else wrong.

[clawtooth]

This is a really good video and - while not specifically saying it - is a very good explanation of a concept in linguistics called Prototype Theory. Let me use the example you used in the video: tomatoes.

In our heads we have a series of criteria which we base definitions on. For example, a fruit might have the catagories of, say, "sweetness", "ability to be made into a dessert", grows on trees" etc. All of these things come together, and in our minds create a construct known as the prototypical "fruit" - if you know Plato's allegory of the cave, it's the idealised fruit.

All of our definitions of what is or isn't a fruit work from this prototype i.e. an apple is a pretty prototypical fruit because it is sweet, grows on trees, and it can be made into delicious pies, tarts, cakes, and other things. This is like the thing in the video about "this book is sci-fi, like star trek" - we use Star Trek as a reference point, something close to the prototype.

However, a tomato isn't a prototypical fruit because it's not sweet and can't be made into a dessert - but it grows on a plant and has the botanical properties of a fruit - so while it /is/ a fruit, it's not really a prototypical one. If someone asked you to name a fruit, tomato isn't the first you'd reach for. This is the same as how if someone asked you to name a bird, you might immediately think of chicken, pigeon, or eagle - but not say penguin, emu, or hummingbird. The features of the latter three are outside the norm of the "bird" prototype.

[FrankieSmileShow]

Yeah there is this phenomenon when a surface argument ("is Gone Home/Proteus/etc really a game?") is really hiding a second argument ("This game I bought was not what I expected and I feel like I was tricked") that is what the people *truly* care about. Like an argument by proxy, to make the problem seem less subjective, and larger than being only their personal experience.

[LimeyLassen]

One idea modern art challenged is that the "is it art" question is tied to systems of power and status. Like how people would rather look at the Mona Lisa than a photograph of the Mona Lisa. This applies to games too - there's prestige and status on the line.

[emilynace]

Growing up I always really really hated the culinary definition of "fruit" because I deeply despised essentially all fruit, and that included fruit usually classified as vegetables. Hated tomatoes, peppers, squash, zucchini, pumpkin, all of it. Loved vegetables, but hated fruit, savory or not.


And it would always really frustrate me, because people would try to argue with me that things like squash or peppers were vegetables, not fruit, and that I should like them. It made no sense to me, they were so obviously fruit, but everyone else looked at me like I was crazy.


So now I'm in my 20s, and bitter, and post YouTube comments on videos that aren't really about food or cooking, to write angry posts about the culinary definition of fruit.

[raphsvids]

it’s been 5 years and this is still one of the best video essays ever. there’s such a clear and nuanced point you’re making, and you take careful, logical steps to get there, so that it feels like we (the audience) are arriving at the conclusion at the same time you are. nothing feels extraneous or irrelevant; every moment feels essential to your argument! truly a video “essay” & a great one at that. this really shaped how i think abt art and the world in general

[catiseith]

0:00 - 0:03 Wait, wait. You lost me there.

[josephcorridon]

Great video, but I must nitpick 6:29 is Charon, Pluto's moon, not Pluto.

[ezgoodnight]

The dinner table: "Is a hotdog a sandwich?"
Ian: *deep breath*

[KahnShawnery]

"Good art is what you like, bad art is the province of snobs." - Robt. Williams