Why is Tesla Going Backwards with Powerwall 3?

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In this video, Joe explains why Tesla's move back to string inverter architecture for Powerwall 3 is a step in the wrong direction.

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[cmbakerxx]

I feel like Powerwall 3 is directly targeted at NEM 3.0.
Panels have dropped in price such that micro inverters are as expensive or more expensive than the solar panels. Optimizers are only slightly better. And labor to install the gateways and other power components required for solar + battery is also significant.
PW3 keeps the install for a solar + battery as simple as possible, providing a cost effective solution for the most common NEM 3.0 install.
The down side is less optimization and flexibility.
I think it make sense for a company looking to sell volume. The system will probably make sense for most consumers. It will not meet the needs of everyone.

[rberga]

When microinverters and power optimizers (often referred to as
Module-Level Power Electronics, or MLPEs) were introduced to the
solar landscape, they offered reduced LCOE by increasing energy
generation.
The trade-off for that improved performance is system cost. In
today’s market, MLPEs cost approximately 2-2.3 times more than
traditional string inverters. This higher cost may have been justifiable
when equipment costs were 2-3 times what they are today. However,
as PV module and other solar equipment costs have dropped,
inverter costs have become a larger portion of the total system cost
and a more impactful driver of LCOE (Levelized Cost of Energy). With two important variables
to consider, energy output and inverter cost, Tesla took a holistic
approach to ensure their solar inverter would provide the best value to
their customers.

[davidpleitez]

Powerwall 3 is definitely a step forward:
Higher output of power
Services larger appliances
The step backwards referred to here is focused around the inverter system now integrated into the PW3:
You can still use microinverters with Tesla Powerwall 3, you do not have to use the integrated inverter. Further, when an efficiency rating of at least 85% is not met, then the microinverters setup is the only setup that should/would be used with it.

[chunkyman]

Powerwall 3 allows for AC coupling so you don’t have to use Tesla panels or their inverter. I have enphase microinverters connected to my PW3

[W.ClaytonHarris]

I jsut had a PW3 installed. I switched to their inverter by choice but didn't have to change my panels, just my MCIs for the panels. Was not a big deal. Still a one day install and now my system is actually more efficient than it was with solar edge. Furthermore the software tesla uses is so much better than the solar edge software, it's scary. Solar edge was not very good to be honest.

[ShaneTheGeek]

- Closed system - Well sure you cant use other battery systems or inverters because the new PW3 is just that an all in one unit. That being said Tesla still offers the Powerwall 2 as far as I am aware for anyone that needs that flexibility.

- Intelligent load control with the Telsa PW3 isn't really needed due to the massive LRA start capabilities of 185 amps. This crazy amount of surge capability effectively makes intelligent load control a moot point. In cases where someone needs more load they may already be running two or even three power walls. Usually this option is at least $2000-3000 dollars to add per electric panel. While I do think its nice to have so you can see what's drawing power and when on a more granular level. It certainly adds cost to replace the panel.

- Generator support in my opinion is something that most Tesla customers do not care about in my opinion. They want to electrify everything anyways and reduce emissions you know for the environment. This option will add another $1000 to a quote.

- I have seen some tests done with and without optimization on panels. From what I can see most MLPS devices introduce some level of clipping weather its AC or DC with Tigo. In these cases the clipping introduced usually negates any benefit seen from the "optimization" it seems to be mostly a break even affair. You are clipping your output but you are optimizing your clipped output. Also most newer panels have bypass diodes that sort of self optimize partially shaded panels. Shaded portions of the roof can just be put on separate strings of their own as in most cases you will have spare string inputs. All that being said the main thing you are gaining is the panel level info which is nice to have but as you said adds cost. This option usually adds $150 dollars per panel in costs plus another $1-2000 for a specific smart gateway device.

All that being said just these nice features can add $5000-$7500 for a small system with battery backup and even more to a larger system. Makes sense why Tesla went with the all-in-one option. Less to install, less to manufacture, ship, support and replace under warranty.

Every time I think I have made up my mind like I thought I did with the Enphase system Tesla threw me a curveball with the PW3. Way less money for a full home backup because of the massive LRA capability with less to install, license vs Enphase. Drawbacks are that I have a less redundant system with no per panel monitoring and less warranty. In theory one could add a Tigo system to the Tesla for per panel monitoring but now you have two separate apps vs Enphase. I do have a fair amount of shading on my roof so in theory I need panel level optimization but then I see various tests where it seems that maybe optimization isn't the end all be all.

[solarguy]

As an experienced installer, my bias is toward system components that are all from the same company. Frankenstein systems made up of components from different manufacturers have given me a lot of problems. Personally, I also favour string inverters because I do ground-mount solar and much prefer to run higher voltage DC. You did make some great points re generator support .. I’ll have to look to see what Tesla had in mind for that. Shutting down loads isn’t a big deal IMO .. humans can use their brains and not roast a turkey when the power is out.

[gios]

Constant background music is annoying.. Your messaging is good, but the music causes an annoying distraction.

[TJ-fzbi]

I enjoy your videos and have learned so much about solar and have recently begun the project to bring solar to our home! Thanks Joe!

[MrKurtn]

You can add the Tesla gateway to be able to use the micro inverters. Take a look at Tesla meter switch. Game changer for installers.

[SDGreg]

I have found Span smart panel to be really expensive($5k+ to purchase and install) and in my opinion it just isn't worth it. I just installed a Emporia Home Energy monitor($165) and made sure I can monitor the energy usage of important circuits with CT Clamps at a much lower price point. If I am running my house in a grid down scenario I can just go out to the panel and turn off breakers that I have clearly labeled on my main panel or subs.

[keijuhl]

I had Tesla solar installed this year. The whole process went very smoothly, and I am quite satisfied with the system and service provided so far. 4kw solar panels, no battery. The panels are the 405watt Qcells, I believe they're assembled in Dalton, GA.

[InDeepSportFishing]

The Lumin Smart Panel has state of charge integration with Powerwall 3 and provides intelligent load control based on customer preference and grid status :).

[andrewclemans]

I can now install a single PW3 with 10kW of PV for well under $2/wdc. It is a game-changer, especially in demand-based markets.

[rogerpicklum]

I chose a microinverter system over Tesla's plain-vanilla because of my serious differential shading issues. Tesla punished me when it came to the Powerwalls because I hadn't gone with their solar program. And yeah, Tesla became harder and harder to reach, downright scary.

[tweeds]

Helpful info! Is it true that Powerwall 3 can only be used with Tesla solar panels? I can understand why it can only be used with Tesla inverters, but it seems like any brand panel can give a DC current that the powerwall can accept. I also don't understand why Powerwall 3 can't be used with DC power optimizers so you can have panel level monitoring.

[longtimber]

We installed more than 800 systems since 2006. Properly installed PV Sring system makes more kWh than those with MLE's . Roof work is hazardous. It is what it is.

[benjamindbarr]

What about bypass diodes on the solar panels? Doesn't that enable the string method which is simpler to maintain as now you are back to a DC system. Also, two telsa powerwalls would enable redundancy, granted that would be more expensive then micro inverters that have quite a bit of redundancy built in but also a higher change of a single component failing... as to the locked in system l, 100% agree there.

[Buzz-epiu]

I just received 3 bids for solar and the only difference between the 3 bids were the solar panels. All 3 solar companies had extensive positive reviews.
From this video it appears that all 3 made the wrong recommendation: 2 Powewall 3’s.
The bid that I was leaning towards has 2 PW 3’s and 44 REC Alpha Pure-RX 460 Watt panels (20+k watts), which will fit perfectly on our rear (SW facing) roof.
We live in South Texas, a tall 2 story house on a hill, with roof facing SE and SW - there will never be any shade anywhere near these panels. Our utility is 1:1, we were looking at 2 PW’s for enough power for our home, and for back-up as we don’t have a generator (all bids for a generator were around $30k - due to generator size and unique install conditions). Main power backup need is to keep our pool circ pump running (300 W) in a power outage during a freeze, heat and hot water are Natural Gas.
The cost is in the low $50k, it looked very good to me, but this video shows that ‘string’ is going backwards and that ‘micro-inverters’ are the way to go. I’ll do more research as this counters what the solar companies here are recommending.

[terrya]

intelligent load control So you're saying people aren't smart enough to just Turn off what they don't need.