Messiah Matters #482 - Idols & Icons

In this episode, we discuss the idea of using images, statues, and icons in worship. Does the Catholic Church have it right that they can use such things in the worship as long as they are not worshipping the images themselves, or is there more that needs to be considered? Also, a discussion on the Torah movement as a reformation and if it is "necessary" to keep the Torah.

3:32 Start
11:06 Catholics, Statues, and Idols
34:16 Do I Have to Keep the Festivals to be Saved?
35:50 The Torah Movement as a Reformation

Executive Producer: Bob & Larue Miller, Lee & Vivian Eagen, Erna Draper, Bobby Keicher, John Coulthard, Michael McClure, Cliff & Karen White, Ben Olver, Michele, Sue Lavey, Micah Smith.

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Rob teaches courses on the 2nd Temple Period, Rabbinic Literature, Judaism, Koine Greek, and Aramaic. He has delivered papers at conferences for both the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Biblical Literature. He serves at Heart of Messiah Ministries in Spokane Valley. Rob holds two degrees from the University of Washington: MA, Comparative Religion (2005) and BA, Near Eastern Languages & Civilization, with a minor in Music (2003).

[tannermcginn]

14:40 I recently heard a great analogy to the Catholic claim that they venerate saints and icons but don't worship them:
Imagine you're having a medical procedure done tomorrow, and your doctor instructs you not to eat any solid food from now until the procedure is over. So you go home, grab some steak, French fries, salad, and pie, throw them in a blender on high with some water, and puree it all until it's drinkable, then you drink it. Then the next day the doctor asks you if you ate any solid food, and you tell him him what you did with the blender and that you didn't technically EAT solid food. Is he going to be happy with you? Looking for loopholes and technicalities is not obedience.

[Rose-rqnf]

In regard to mentioning lighting candles on Shabbat, in agreement to what you said...traditions are not bad in and of themselves as long as the tradition doesn't violate the Law of God or is treated as such.

[helenagreenpine]

18:15 or if David wrote his psalms crying out to Moses

[justsomeguy]

So why or why not would a cross be a graven image used for worship?

[peterzinya]

A video just came out about statues of Mary. The commenters all had some story about what the statue did for them One said the mouth moved and she said something. Another said a statue somewhere would cry every now and then. No idolatry there (;-D

[sergloera]

People need to get away from have to do and understand getting to do. Thinking in “have to” mindset essentially indicates that justification by grace alone is not fully understood

[loismorgan]

So, Caleb, are you saying you'd have a problem with banners people use in "worship"? Say, a banner with a Lion, and the words "Lion of Judah"?