“There’s no tanking in hockey”

#nhl #hockey #montrealcanadiens

Every NHL team is doing everything they can to have the best odds at landing Connor Bedard. Yet, commissioner Gary Bettman denies that teams intentionally tank. We dive into the mentality of tanking for franchises & what it means for players on horrible teams.

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[Bumbikes]

I don’t think players will intentionally “Play bad” but I am sure GM and coaches tell them to take it easy….

[ajpdeschenes]

I think a good solution to prevent tanking would be to allow draft positions (or lottery tickets) based on the ranking of the team for the last THREE seasons, instead of just one.
That way, you're sure to really help the team in most need and I can't see a team purposely tanking for 3 straight years.

[elliottryan]

As a Pittsburgh fan anybody remember the race we had against The Devil's for a certain Canadian that changed the game forever?

[prodICYN]

For the habs and Caufield, while I do think it's a "tanking" move, I also believe that they just didn't want him to aggravate his injury in a doomed season.. Plus, it's his contract year, and he was on pace for 45+ goals in his sophomore season

[noahmatthew]

Don’t forget about all the teams that passed Tolvanen on waivers.

[trevorlambert]

I can't say whether teams tank, because I can't read minds. But I can say with certainty that tanking is an utterly stupid thing to do, and only idiots would consider it a strategy. Just look at the lottery odds. Even finishing dead last gives you a 1 in 4 chance of getting top pick. The odds only marginally change between most finishing places. Imagine blowing a bunch of games and revenue to improve your odds of getting Bedard by 2-5%. The lottery was set up this way specifically to discourage it. Unfortunately, it depends on being rational and having a grade three level understanding of odds, which apparently most fans don't have.

[radovanbabjak]

No player playes bad on purpose, some might loose interest after a loosing streak

But as you said GMs might purposefully set up team for failure

[VoIcanoman]

I still think that given the parity in the league, the difference between a team that finishes just out of the playoffs, and a team that finishes dead last is usually pretty small...IF both franchises were trying equally hard every game to get those 2 points. But because the team competing for the wildcard spot is playing for their playoff lives, while the team that's had a bunch of injuries and kind of sucks anyway, is aiming to get the best lottery odds, the difference is amplified.

Therefore, I would implement a system where each pick, from 17 to 32, is assigned randomly each year to non-playoff teams. If anything would eliminate tanking, this is it. You have a 1/16 chance of picking 1st overall, no matter whether you just missed the playoffs, or finished with 55 points in 82 games. By taking a team's drafting position out of their hands (in the 1st round...for rounds 2 to 7, I'd go in reverse standings-order), the incentive every year is to be as good as you can be. If you make the playoffs, anything can happen (look at the Habs in 2021). And if you miss the playoffs, at least the level of competition you offered made other teams' path to the playoffs that much harder, and thus regular-season hockey that much more entertaining.

[ChickenOfTheCaveMan]

The definition of tanking is pretty much losing on purpose, so asking your staff, coaches, players, to take a dive and think this will never happen. But if we're talking the variant of tanking by not signing players that could help you, trading your main assets for picks and prospects, or asking your players to solve long ongoing medical issues, it happens all the time because no sports league is made for a team to have 15 years success run.

[RBDETTr]

If I was a team wanting Bedard I'd do the only think that nearly guarantees 1st overall pick for Taylor Hall. He was on teams that got 1st overall in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2021.

[jeremykraenzlein]

For a non-playoff team to prioritize player development over immediate winning isn't necessarily tanking.

For example, in the 2016-17 season, the Red Wings started sophomore player Dylan Larkin at center, after he had played his rookie year as a winger. Adjusting to center at the NHL level was more tricky for a new player, but they thought that he might be ready. A few weeks later, they decided that this experiment wasn't working, and moved him back to a wing.

Later in the season, when it became clear that they were not going to make the playoffs, they moved Larkin back to center. If he is going to have to climb a learning curve at some point to become an effective NHL center, he might as well do so in the remaining games of a non-playoff season. It wasn't a plan to tank, it was the best move to make the next year's team better.

And it didn't result in losing games anyway. It turns out that with another half year of NHL experience, Larkin was now ready to play center. That was now one less thing for the next year's team to worry about. He has been at center ever since, and now moving him back to a wing would look like a tanking move.

[ronryan]

My favorite thing was when Buffalo, Arizona, and Toronto all tanked HARD in 2015 a and McDavid wound up in Edmonton(who actually had a winning record after the trade deadline). Buffalo got Eichel, but he's gone now. The Leafs got Matthews the next year and have been a winning team, unless playoffs are counted. And Arizona remains the dumpster fire they've always been. Teams tank, and it seems to never work out.

[KHoltzie]

Buffalo did it back in ‘15–and we still got f—ked! 😄😄😄

[johndeere]

It is not just the franchises that are incentivized to tank, but like in Caulfield's case, the players. The NHL is rampant with players who played injured, because that is simply the nature of hockey.

When your team is out of a playoff run, the franchise is upset because it means they don't get playoff revenue cuts, the players for their part, often have bonus' for making playoffs/performance in the playoffs, so they are also upset as it means losing out on potential income as well as accolades for not making the cut.

The upside for the teams/players when they are out is, as you mentioned, increasing their draft value by increasing their odds of getting higher picks and for players, they don't feel bad or second guess going to get surgery to correct something they were going to play through, which may have eventually shortened if not ended their careers (think Zetterberg's retiring early/missing chunks of seasons because he neglected his back injuries).

I have nothing against "tanking" to save the future of your team/players, I just don't like the fact that you get better odds for doing it based on standings. There are enough teams in the league and enough quality players around the World to fill your roaster on a nightly basis with competitive teams, even when superstars are injured. Give the bottom 4~8 teams the same odds at landing the first, that way they will play to make themselves and fans be happy without sacrificing their chances of improving their teams through the draft.

[mindtrapped]

“all major professional sports” 😂😂😂 good one

[stephenchu]

You just answered your own question: no individual player will intentionally play bad because they are all playing for their jobs next year. The organization will intentionally tank. It's called being a seller at the trade deadline. Teams that are sellers at the trade dealine typically are worse off (in the short-term) after a trade intentionally. This is the exact definition of tanking.

[Asymmetrical-Saggin]

Players do NOT tank, do not play bad intentional. Players want to win. You're delusional if you think players directly 'tank'

[Gergentine]

I think a huge thing most fans don't understand is trying to get a offensive team like let's say, the ducks to play under a strict defensive system is essentially tanking. It's win - win though, your team sucks so you pick higher, and your young core gets the boring monotonous islandersesque crap out of the way while they're young and middling at best anyways. SO WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO THIS? There is literally 0 reason not to tank if your going to be middling anyways. Unless you enjoy being like the islanders and never truly rebuilding a true contender.

[AD_RC]

It happens. But what irates me is the canvases who go all in to the "we're team tank whoooo lets loose, no we don't need the points here why the fuck are you winning we don't want that". I like to cave their heads in with a spade.

[daviddietz]

Players and coaches don't, but GM's clearly set up their teams to get better draft position.