What's the Deal with the SIG P320 Exploding and Firing 'Un-Commanded'?

Social media is very excited these days about "exploding" SIG 320s...so let's consider what might actually be happening.

Of course, this discussion is invariably clouded by the fact that the P320 did have a legitimate drop-safety problem a few years ago. It was fixed, but many people don't bother to distinguish between that issue and other alleged malfunctions. So are SIGs really exploding right and left, or is this a case of social media attention making a typical number of incidents with a variety of causes look like a huge trend?

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[ForgottenWeapons]

Get Entered to WIN this authentic 101st Airborne M17!
Deadline is 04/28/23 @ 11:59pm (PST).

[libertarian]

As a LEO and departmental armorer I can attest you’d be surprised as just how bad and inept some LEOs can be win guns.

[rotaman]

I’m a range safety officer at my local shooting range. I spend many hours watching the fire lines. Without a doubt, the individuals who display the worst safety consideration and/or show a general nonchalance about muzzle discipline are cops. It is a well known phenomenon amongst the RSOs to the point where we all take note when a cop is on the range and make an extra effort to pay close attention to them. I think their casual handling of firearms is a result of their daily familiarity with weapons and just handling them day in and day out as part of their normal routine to the point that they lose sensitivity and awareness.

[TomDog]

I had a customer return a 320 several years ago. The pistol was "completely undependable. A piece of junk". The trigger "felt squishy" or made "funny clicks". Also, "The trigger often had to be pulled twice to fire a round." (WTF?) I disassembled the pistol, asked the customer who had replaced the original trigger with a flat trigger. The customer had replaced the trigger...and put the trigger bar spring in backwards. Customer messes up, blames the pistol. 9 times out of ten.

[nope]

To the train derailment, they are classified as minor or major. Minor is exceedingly common. It is like the flat tire of railroads. Major is like the 100 car pileup and used to be exceptionally rare.
So seeing more then a couple major derailments a year is a great big flashing warning sign that there are huge issues.

[GetMeThere]

I'll never forget Tex, and how he had the honesty to show us his video -- and how people piled on him for it. I love him for being honest, and for showing us the consequences of mistakes in gun handling.

[theraven]

I hear the Marines have started using Sig 320s as improvised grenades. Got it on good authority from a friend who’s neighbor’s kid’s pediatrician heard it from a cousin whose kid is thinking of possibly enlisting in the Navy.

[abitofapickle]

This topic reminds me of what happened to my dad. He had a pocket pistol in his pocket without a holster and accidentally put his car keys in that pocket. He pulled out his car keys, which pulled the trigger, causing the gun to go off. He only got a torn pant leg. Lesson learned.

[evenjohansen]

Delightful humor, Ian - thank you for still going strong 10+ years later! You're a wonderful resource and a wonderful person!

[kmb]

I’m a police officer and firearms instructor at a department with just south of 1, 000 officers, and we’re almost all issued the 320, save for some plainclothes units who are authorized to carry the 365. Last time I checked we had about 1, 000 320’s in inventory and there’s about 950 that are carried every day. When we first got issued them pre-recall, we had one gun go off from a drop. An officer was in a scuffle with someone who tried to grab his gun. He managed to get it out of the holster and in the struggle, the Sig ended up getting spiked into the ground at just the right angle that it popped a round off in the air. We did some testing and were able to replicate it on a couple occasions. Sig immediately took our guns back and refitted them. We didn’t have another issue since and were unable to replicate it with the fixed guns.

As a member of the firearms instruction unit, we investigate every negligent/unintended discharge as well to determine what went wrong: was it a gun problem, a user problem, or very rarely was it a perfect confluence of events that caused the weapon to go off with no input from the officer but also not because of a fault with the gun. We’ve had a couple incidents where an officer fucked up and holstered with their finger in the trigger guard, or failed to clear the chamber before “dry firing” or something like that. Those officers immediately had their guns taken away and went through extensive re-training. One had already done this once and been re-trained, then managed to ND again a couple months after, and was immediately fired.

The couple incidents where we’ve had a 320 go off with no user input (besides the one drop) have all been not the fault of the gun, but the holster. Since we carry light-bearing guns, our holsters have a bit of a gap near the trigger guard to allow the light to slide in when holstering. We’ve had a couple situations where something like a seatbelt clip or branch has managed to get wedged in there just right and pull the trigger. When we investigated these incidents, we were pretty quickly able to determine that the problem was not with the gun, and that it hadn’t just gone off randomly, although that was of course the initial rumor that started flying around.

I’ve yet to see a single 320 randomly go off for no reason, and I certainly haven’t seen a Sig blow up, despite the fact that we have about 1, 000 officers putting 500 rounds each through them per month at minimum during mandatory firearms training.

[davidgillon]

Even ridiculously unlikely stuff will happen if you do it often enough, which is why aircraft developers have to fix even stuff with a failure rate of 1 in a billion per flight hour if it could mean loss of the aircraft. Most bizarre one I had to deal with was the chance of a cosmic ray randomly flipping a specific bit in a chip just as the aircraft was landing. I cranked the numbers - likelihood of it happening, likely fleet size, likely number of flights/day, likely service life, and it came out as something we needed to fix.

[hedgeearthridge]

I'm a Quality Analyst at an engine factory. You really see why reputation is so important here, even a little problem can blow up (hehe) into a huge problem for your company or product's reputation. That's why you are *supposed* to focus only on quality, and let production naturally increase while improving your process. It doesn't matter that you're making 1, 000 pistols a day, when nobody will buy them because the reputation for quality is so bad. It doesn't matter if your quality is actually bad or not, your potential customers have already decided that for you. To prevent that, protect the quality at all costs, don't give them an excuse to drag you through the mud.

[Big_T]

Had mine for 6 years. Carry with one in the chamber everyday and somehow it has never went off without me pulling the trigger. People with negligent discharges lie all the time. Especially police officers who could get fired for it.

[HarryPrimate]

Your remark about tossing the Sig over the wall and seeing if it would explode reminded me of an event from the early 80’s. Was in a gun shop in Alpharetta, GA. Glock was still a fairly new product. To show the durability of the gun he drew it from his holster and, without clearing it, tossed it across the showroom. I never, ever went back in that store again.

[pyrrhusinvictus]

“It went off on its own!”
-Cops after a ND

[jconradh]

Great video. I have one of the first 1000 P320 full size pistols. I noticed the fire control assembly made weird clicks, and the slide would not return to battery every time, but mostly ignored it. When Sig announced the voluntary recall, I waited a year and a half, and then sent it in. The fire control no longer clicks, and the gun returns to battery every time. In fact, I wish I had sent it in sooner. I trust this gun, and feel it won't fire unless I pull the trigger or do something stupid.

[AlexanderEddy]

It's nothing to be ashamed of, it happens to me when I'm excited too

[markbecht]

Shades of "Unintended Acceleration" issues with the Audi 5000. Graphed over time, 90+% of the reports happened immediately after it made the news, as everyone scrambled to find something other than their own mistake to blame. Huge story, drove Audi out of the US market for a number of years, but the final result was that it wasn't really a thing.

[quadog]

I have the Sig P250 Compact in 9mm and full size kit for .45 ACP. The 320 is based on the 250, the main difference between the two being the P250 uses a spurless hammer system, while the P320 uses their new striker system. The P250 is double-action only, so the trigger is heavier than the trigger for the P320, but it still feels light enough to pull. Having owned it since 2016, so far it's been no issues. Fantastic carry gun. If I could describe it, it feels like a modern compact pistol with a classic revolver trigger.

If some of you are considering the P320 but are still iffy about it, I would consider trying out the P250; cheaper price, same feel, same modular kits and magazines, but with a double-action trigger with a revolver like sturdy pull.

[chrits]

There is a YouTube channel called Sig Mechanics that goes into depth of the differences between the original and newer FCU. The original p320 was basically the m17/M18 without the safety. The only means of keeping the trigger from coming back unintentionally was the external safety to which Sig removed on the original p320. Because of the removal of the external safety and weight of the trigger, a p320 will be able to fire of dropped at a certain height and angle. The newer FCUs added an internal disconnector and there a shelf milled into the slide where it sits. The disconnector will be depressed when slide goes back, so it would be impossible for the pistol to fire when out of battery.