How Bad Was The Panzer 4?

Of all the tanks from World War II, the Panzer 4 is one of the least glamorized. Later developments like the Panther and Tiger usually get the spotlight. Why was it made, and just how well did it perform?

Check the channel "About" section for the link to the creator of my profile picture.

Sources:
Panzer Tracts No.4 by Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle
Panzer IV & Its Variants by Walter J. Spielerberger
Panzer IV by Kevin Hjermstad
Panzer IV vs Sherman by Steven Zaloga and Richard Chasemore
Armored Champion - Steven Zaloga
Panzerkampfwagen III by Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle
Germany's Panther Tank by Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle

Songs used (in order from first to last):
Subnautica - Into the Unknown
Halo 3: ODST - Rain (Deference for Darkness)

Sound mods:
Epic Thunder (Pre-release)
Armored Warfare Crew Voices

Reddit: /u/spookston
Discord: See my Patreon page.

#warthunder​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tanks​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tankhistory

[Spookston]

Sorry for any voiceover problems, feeling sick again

[DefinitelyNotEmma]

I'm always sad how people tend to overlook the Pz. IV when they talk about german WW2 vehicles but focus on the workhorses of the other nations like the T-34 or M4. The Pz. IV was like tea, a flavor for any occasion. Funnily enough, T-34, Pz. IV and M4 all faces off against each other after WW2 again in the middle east, due to the Arab-Israeli conflicts. A last goodbye in the desert for the WW2 veterans.

[daredevevil]

Thats actually really interesting that the Panther was easier to produce than the Panzer IV. Always would have considered the Panzer IV to be easier. But I guess most of the time would go into the weird hull where Panther hulls were more streamlined.

[fluffyboom]

Ah yes, the one tank that did the thing and did other things as well

[JHohenhauser]

The Panzer IV, despite all its shortcomings, is probably my favorite tank of the war. I can't place my finger on why.

[rorythomas]

The design was good enough to be in continuous production as a medium tank from 1939-45, which was pretty unique and the best evidence of its quality

[ThatOneGib]

I guess the most eye opening thing here is when you mention that the Panther was actually *easier* to manufacture than the Pz. IV

[ncrveteranranger]

Still probably one of my favorite tanks design wise. Obviously the lack of sloping wasn't great but it made for an aestheticly pleasing vehicle to me

[mqxle]

Maybe "How Good Was The <....>" would be cool for overhyped tanks

[primal_guy]

Pretty interesting how a tank initially designed in the 1930s could go toe to toe with the latest 1940s medium tanks.

[captblueshadow]

Are you ever going to do a video on the Pz.III? I personally love that tank and the III M is always my go-to Tank to just have fun in WT. I know by the late war it was definitely out matched, but I would also like to know how effective it still was.

[theeverydaythinker]

Panzer 4 is one of my favorite WW2 tanks, as much of tiger bias i have, the panzer 4 and its variants was a hell of a workhorse

[czech_hans]

It always surprises me how you can gain so much info about a certain vehicle

[ODST_Parker]

Pz. IV is still one of my favorite tanks in history, and definitely my favorite WWII German tank. In War Thunder, the G variant is one of my favorite tanks in the game, and was even when it was up at 4.0 where I spaded the thing. Seeing it at 3.3 is more than a bit frustrating, since it easily holds its own at 3.7 and even 4.0. It's got crap armor against most tanks, sure, but it has good mobility for what it is and one of the most consistently powerful guns in the game relative to BR.

[MandoWookie]

You can see how the Panther would be easier to produce. Just from hull forms, the Panther can be made from larger, fewer flat pieces of steel. The PzIV is made from many more smaller flats of steel, with many more places that have to be fitted together, and more angles for every aspect of the hull. That is more man hours in fitting and welding, and in terms of production, especially for Germany, man hours of skilled factory workers was probably their greatest resource restriction. It literally was a choice between having troops at the front, or in the factory. They couldn't have both. So anything that could cut the man hours in production would have an outsized economic effect over actual raw materials cost. It didnt matter that the Design B used 25% more steel than Design A, if it took only 50% of the skilled work hours, you were coming out ahead. And if you were able to get 90% of the field effectiveness of the much bigger Design T, that cost 50% more in raw materials, and 75% more on man hours, you were coming out way ahead.

[weaponizedautism]

The PZ IV is the BF-109 of the panzerwaffe in that the Germans kept improving the design until it was at its absolute limit. Sad that its often overshadowed by Panther and Tiger.

What i like the most about the PZ IV is that the design even in 1945 was still competitive against M4 75mm and cromwells.Both tanks designed during the war, despite itself being a design from 1936. The 75mm KWK 40 gun was also capable of taking out most allied tanks except IS-2 at normal combat ranges. The fact that such an old design managed to stay relevant for so long really proves what a well balanced machine the PZ IV really was.

[Expocat]

I swear Ive lost so many braincells defending the Panther for this reason: The Panzer IV was aging poorly and was just as difficult to produce. Why would you continue making the Panzer IV if the Panther is much more combat effective while costing basically the same? The Panzer IV fought well and was a pretty decent tank, but you don't take an inter-war design to 1945. And the Germans didn't have the resource and manpower luxuries to make up for aging issues with sheer volume of production like the Soviets or Americans. Sure the T-34 and Sherman were starting to show their age, but the Soviets and Americans also happened to be able to produce enough of them to offset that. The Germans didn't have that luxury. They had to get the most resource and manpower efficient tank possible, and that tank was the Panther.

edit: I knew the reply section was going to be a dumbsterfire but jesus christ. Some of you made good points, some made points that I agree with and didn't necessarily argue against (such as the guy stating that suddenly stopping Panzer IV production would be a bad idea as it would take a while to re-tool factories and spare parts for the Panzer IV would become more rare, making it harder to maintain existing tanks. I wasn't argueing for a sudden stop to the Panzer IV, but a gradual replacement.)

Some of you also severely lack braincells by pointing out many issues with the Panther, without realizing the Panzer IV had the exact same issues in many cases, making your entire arguement completely void because.... well it's a comparison between the Pz IV and Panther, *if they share a characteristic, there is no point in taking it into account as it changes nothing.* Both tanks were similarly unreliable and a pain in the ass to maintain with the few spare parts. Both tanks faired relatively poorly on cross-country compared to allied counterparts. You're essentially comparing diamond and graphene, except you dismiss graphene because it has some radioactive carbon-14 in it, but... so do Diamonds, meaning pointing out the carbon-14 is completely irrelevant since both have it in similar ammounts.

[Ramash]

"It's alright" - Basically how all WW2 tank videos end for the main vehicles.
Honestly much more of a Panzer IV fan than a Panther fan. Always found the latter's turret to be quite ugly for me. That and a healthy dose of GuP made me love the IV.

[boydgrandy]

Guderian wanted the Pzr IV upgraded and built in larger numbers, in lieu of the Tiger and Panther development. He felt that there was still room for development of the Pzr IV and he had come to realize that sufficient quantities of good enough beats shortages of somewhat better.

[endlesnights]

I still find it so odd that both the Pz III and Pz IV were approved to go into mass production at the same time instead of just having one tank with the option to swap out the turret / cannon as required. While both tanks had fairly different requirements to fit different roles during their inspection, but by 1938/39 a lot of their characteristics converged to the point where either chassis could really do the job of the other, and it all felt rather redundant.