Mindscape 188 | Arik Kershenbaum on What Aliens Will be Like

If extraterrestrial life is out there — not just microbial slime, but big, complex, macroscopic organisms — what will they be like? Movies have trained us to think that they won’t be that different at all; they’ll even drink and play music at the same cafes that humans frequent. A bit of imagination, however, makes us wonder whether they won’t be completely alien — we have zero data about what extraterrestrial biology could be like, so it makes sense to keep an open mind. Arik Kershenbaum argues for a judicious middle ground. He points to constraints from physics and chemistry, as well as the tendency of evolution to converge toward successful designs, as reasons to think that biologically complex aliens won’t be utterly different from us after all.

Arik Kershenbaum received his Ph.D. in Evolutionary Biology and Ecology from the University of Haifa. He is currently College Lecturer and Director of Studies at Girton College, University of Cambridge. He is the author of The Zoologist’s Guide to the Galaxy: What Animals on Earth Reveal About Aliens — and Ourselves.

#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

[Emanresu]

Few things better than starting a morning with a new Mindscape episode and coffee.

[CraigMCox]

To think there is no multicellular life in our galaxy is like looking out at the ocean from the beach and saying “well I don’t see any fish waving at me, so the ocean is likely empty”

It’s actually quite surprising to me to hear that take.

[ElSachinoo]

Amazing! I think I'll give this a relisten, lots to unpack :)

[LEDewey_MD]

Great discussion! If anyone is interested, the book, "The Vital Question" (about how life originated) by Dr. Nick Lane (leads the Origins of Life Program at University College London) eloquently explains the topic, with a focus on how eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes, how alkaline hydrothermal vents are a candidate for where life originated on Earth, and explains a lot of the pivotal research that led to where the field is today. It is a good "base" tome for understanding the field, even for lay persons. He even talks about life from a physicist's point of view, quoting Schrodinger saying how life "extracts negative entropy". Nick Lane proposes, and gives his arguments for how bacterial or simple life in the cosmos should be common ("life only needs rock, water, and carbon dioxide"), but complex life may be rare.

[bryandguitar]

Loved the comment that we don't see parrots flying around talking to each other.

In English, I presume. Don't parrots communicate somehow with squawks?

[OBGynKenobi]

Erwin Schrödinger introduced the idea of an "aperiodic crystal" that contained genetic information in its configuration of covalent chemical bonds. This is what he called life in his book What is Life.

[joestacey]

What a great episode. So interesting. Thank you.

[Tubluer]

Dear Sean, Does Arik own a house duck? I hear quacking now and then.

[marcoaurelioa.]

Great! The next step could be bringing in your namesake to talk about Evo-Devo and get a more in-depth understanding of how organisms are built from DNA sequences. How life goes from genotype to phenotype.

[DestroManiak]

Let's I'm pogged out of my mind!

[peterz]

Very interesting. Wonder what Arik's assessment of homo sapiens vs other species would be if the comparison was based on how we were 100, 000 to 200, 000 years ago.

[BigZebraCom]

I don't care what the aliens look like, but I am terrified that the aliens will want to talk about 'The Amway Experience' or want to Karoke Celine Dion Songs.

[leonenriquez]

Hey, Sean, try to have as guest Frederik Stjernfelt. He has a very well founded idea about what kind of intelligence is that which makes humans different.

[Sheine-bj]

"They are probably pretty nice guys" 🎉😊❤

[TheMrCougarful]

The Fermi Paradox isn't a paradox. We are surely alone. Think about that as you drive and fly your way through the 6th mass extinction.

[HomeDoingFine]

Good episode. Think we should have an open discussion for evental life outside our dear planet. The universe is bigger than most of us can grasp. You could invite Michael Godier. Beside from his special interest in lithium, he is a very good guy to listen to. 😀

[primuscameron]

34:20 onward. He's talking about daleks !

[raginaldmars]

As a German Biologist and Pythagorean - we have no idea - how recent in cosmic evolution WE are. When a civilization may be 1 000 years “older” = more advanced - they will be unrecognizable to us. As we look out more for Life outside - any other advanced civilization does. There may be fully robotic systems we have no imagination of their capabilities. They may be here for Millions of years already - observing Evolution of real organic Life. For a Robot that must be the biggest thrill... and they may be care takers of Earth “Guardian Angels” well armed.... May be now installing human ways to finally get rid of us - as we are the most ignorant destroyers of BIOS TOPOS. This is a thrilling concept - that Robots with super human advanced “consciousness” - take better care of Life and Earth then we ever do. The expellation from Garden Eden in this sense may be a real story - and now we are finally expelled from the Bios Sphere - as we are the most Life destroying Species ever. Final NOAH Event... may be only Robots can appreciate Life the most...

[FreeSnoww]

This is interesting. As a researcher/physicist are you at all familiar with the UFO community and different research such as Salvatore Pais and Steven Greer and others who corroborate Navy research being integral with development of UFOs and how some follow the Ancient Alien Astronaut theory being evidence of past contact? It gets thrown out commonly but this looks like the place to bring it up. They may be referred to as Annunaki. Or do you already reject this evidence?

[X-boomer]

Aril’s argument against the dark forest is just not convincing. Any species that progressed far enough to achieve interstellar travel is just as likely to be familiar with war as we are. And they will face the same calculation. Humans may look cute *now*, but given their history, allowing them to achieve interstellar travel would be foolhardy. Better to confine them, or even snuff them out.