Mindscape 131 | Avi Loeb on Taking Aliens Seriously

The possible existence of technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations — not just alien microbes, but cultures as advanced (or much more) than our own — is one of the most provocative questions in modern science. So provocative that it’s difficult to talk about the idea in a rational, dispassionate way; there are those who loudly insist that the probability of advanced alien cultures existing is essentially one, even without direct evidence, and others are so exhausted by overblown claims in popular media that they want to squelch any such talk. Astronomer Avi Loeb thinks we should be taking this possibility seriously, so much so that he suggested that the recent interstellar interloper `Oumuamua might be a spaceship built by aliens. That got him in a lot of trouble. We talk about the trouble, about `Oumuamua, and the attitude scientists should take toward provocative ideas.

Abraham (Avi) Loeb received his Ph.D. in plasma physics from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is currently the Frank B. Baird Jr. professor of science at Harvard University. He served as the Chair of Harvard’s Astronomy department from 2011-2020. He is Director of the Institute for Theory and Computation of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, and Founding Director of Harvard’s Black Hole Initiative. He is chair of the Advisory Committee for the Breakthrough Starshot Initiative. His new book is Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth.

#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

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This interview is better than all the others, from an intellectual standpoint, Sean C has conducted his questioning and arguments perfectly . It’s the most satisfying interview for Avi Loeb in comparison to ‘JRE’, ‘ Lex Fridman’, ‘ Event Horizon’ and others . Enthralling!

[Frost-khmg]

Sean Carroll and Aliens on the title; instant like

[treborheminway]

Don't be surprised by what you Don't Find, when you Don't Look!

[MrOreo]

Keating, Lex, Rogan now Carroll. Avi is tearing it up!

[TheMrCougarful]

We've been hearing a lot from Avi Loeb lately, due to the article mentioned. Listening to this podcast I like the way he thinks, would enjoy hearing more from him in the future. He has a refreshing -- meaning honest -- frankness and openness. I really enjoyed this talk and learned a lot. He was intelligent and light-hearted, a perfect match to the host. Well done to both.

[TheChadavis]

I think Sean needs to have Avi back, now with the news that Avi is heading the Galileo Project. This is historic

[AtypicalPaul]

Love to listen to Avi. He has a childlike curiosity with the intelligence of a professor yet possess the humble nature of a monk.

[rayn_ff]

Didn't expect to find so many close minded people in the comments 🥺 Aperantly to have an idea and to want to put it to test is an awful thing...

[Im-just-Stardust]

I like your knowledge, style and approach to science sir, thx you for existing and bringing my faith back in humanity. Professor Caroll for presidence !

[kjhman]

I knew that Sean would press Avi more than the other podcasters he’s been visiting. I think Avi is stretching a bit here with his assumptions. Refreshing to hear.

[cipaisone]

Assumption on life being common or uncommon are like saying that something is big or small, without having any meter to compare to.
we just do not know enough.

[jimkane]

This gotta be interesting. Thanks, Sean. Can't wait to go for a walk and listen to this.

[billr]

According to Arthur C Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" artificial interstellar probes always come in 3's, so we just have to be patient and wait a bit for the next one...

[alexismamadou]

Oumuamua was loosely inspected but those chuckles were caught on tape lol

[kurtschlesinger]

Avi is a clever man and brave to come out with aliens

[emrazum]

I really like the hypothesis that technological civilization is inversely correlated to longevity (we could easily go extinct by 2100), and we see so few remnants of previous civilization because most species are smart enough to treat it as a fool's errand. Out of the thousands of species on Earth, only one started industrial civilization, and even then it came at the cost of colonialism and global ecosystem collapse

[Baleur]

Avi is the first astronomer that actually thinks about the universe the same way i've always thought about it all my life. God that is so refreshing. Also, we need to look at Tabby's Star again.
Because we still havent explained why that star BOTH had the light dimming, AND the structured repeating radio signal, which everyone seems to have forgotten about..

[zfs]

We're so fortunate to be alive in this day and age

[redmed]

Wouldn't be ironic if we discovered life on another planet and their technology was 5 minutes ahead of ours but that was enough to destroy us.

[RWin-fpjn]

A Great podcast! Avi is such a rare combination of independent thinking, intelligence, modesty and courage. We should cherish him holding such a prestigious scientific position at Harvard. As for Oumuamua: The physical arguments that Avi gives for it being of alien origin vs. a rock/comet are logical and convincing. You’d have to add quite some epicycles (which mainstream is eager to do) to suggest this might yet be a natural object. As for Avi’s argument Oumuamua would be rather a broken piece of alien technology vs. an active alien craft; Here, the science is not at all settled: Avi’s philosophical argument of ‘humanity not being interesting enough to visit’ is a bit weak. Drake’s equation suggests there should have been countless planets in the past harboring civilizations with advanced technology, potentially with colonizing ambitions. This implies (human) life on Earth could very well be the result of such colonizing efforts, in which case we would likely be subject to their occasional ‘check up’ visits. And one does not have to be religious to acknowledge the bible mentions the phrase in Genesis: ‘..Let US create man in OUR image..’ In Hebrew: ‘Elohim’ plural. 

But there are also observational arguments against Oumuamua being simply 'technology debris'; First and foremost we have the extreme eccentricity of the parabolic fly-by, which would be remarkable for any random fly-by of an observable interstellar object. Let’s say this is a 2 sigma event, putting it at 5% probability. Next we have to account for Oumuamua being at exactly the right segment of Earth’s orbit around the Sun. Earth’s orbit spans 940 million km. A passage at 24 million km distance means another 2 sigma event at a chance of roughly 1 in 40. Multiplied, the suggested trajectory has about 0, 12% probability of being random. From this simple stochastic, logic suggests this was not a random event. And lets also not forget we did NOT see Oumuamua closing in on Earth even though perhaps we should have, considering its size and pulsating EM reflection. We only saw Oumuamua on its way OUT and from this we all merely ASSUME it also had an incoming trajectory. But as an active craft, it might have had NO incoming trajectory at all. Oumuamua might just as well have been stationed at e.g. the far side of the moon. Perhaps disappointed of our status it decided to leave in October 2017, keeping its departure intentionally obscured by the moon itself, and only taking a sharp turn when it became visible to us on its way out, which would also (better) explain its non-compliant gravitational trajectory? Taking this a step further; its EM oscillation in visible light is may not be the result of an a ‘object tumbling’ solar light reflection but more likely due to its engines producing a 3 axial oscillating EM field pinching the solar 'wind' into a high energy-density linear exhaust behind it, getting its thrust that way? A 3 axial manipulated Bose Einstein condensate might be at the core of such technology, making good use of ‘surfing’ the relatively weak charged ‘solar wind’ and the stronger intergalactic plasma fields outside of our solar system, the reality of which the voyager crafts are increasingly facing. I would hope Avi also sees the argument for a non-random visit and work out this option as well. Maybe a nice project for a grad student? Anyway, thanx for this interview and all the best for you Avi !