What Modern Fantasy Gets Wrong (and why it matters)

Let's discuss the state of modern fantasy and why it feels so different!

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0:00 - Intro
2:13 - Part 1: The Soul of Fantasy
13:43 - Part 2: The Problem of Over-Explanation in Modern Fantasy
25:53 - What Modern Fantasy Can Learn

[libraryofaviking]

Did you enjoy this video? Check out my most recent commentary video here:

[bonzwah]

As a teacher, I think that a lot of authors don’t realize that making their theme clear is not the same thing as making their themes convincing. The advantage of the storytelling medium is that it can lead the readers to drawing the conclusion you want them to conclude. You interrupt that possibility by telling them outright what to think. Readers who already agree with you will find it, convincing, of course, a readers who do not already agree with you will recognize that the opinion on the page is not their own, but rather the author’s. At the end of the day, writing is a skill, and not all authors are equally masterful in it.

[Eluarelon]

I think it's mostly a matter of perspective. What often gets forgotten is that if we're talking about fantasy classics we're only talking about a very small sample of what was out there at the time. Namely the small part that got popular enough to still be talked about in 2024. The thing is, back then there was an awful lot of fantasy out there noone seems to remember and most of that stuff wasn't up to par in quality with the greats of the genre. And in that respect, not much has changed and the number of fantasy books that are really outstanding in quality is still very small.
Comparing modern stuff to Tolkien also seems kinda unfair to me, because there's a reason for the huge impact those books had and it's really hard to duplicate that feat. This said, there's still quite a few modern authors that have the same kind of impact on me Tolkien had back then and that fill me with the same kind of wonder and mystery he did. The amount of really good stuff might even be bigger than it was back then, and there might be a reason why you kept going back to Tolkien and Hobb that much. Because even in their time, those two were/are the exception, not the norm.

[random_reader]

about the "modern books aren't subtle" thing, i get it and i do prefer subtler stuff, but at the same time, media literacy is at an all time low, I've seen way too many people misrepresent/miss the point on things that are so obvious that i can't really blame authors for not wanting to be misunderstood, especially since "death of the author" is the popular mindset these days.

[bookknight]

As a university lecturer I can say that what seems obvious to me in narratives is completely missed by my students. It seems like the US is losing its critical reading/viewing skills in younger generations overall because we are not teaching them to read long form works and be able to understand how things like themes, metaphor, and symbolism are used over the course of a narrative. They need to notice things and recall them later to get something like foreshadowing or symbolism. But if we don’t teach these things and kids don’t read, how will they know that is a thing? Even in film, which is what I teach, students rarely are paying attention to what they’re watching to the degree that I do and so miss the subtle unspoken things, and even spoken things, that give them exposition or that symbolize rather than literally stating a thing. The show don’t tell. But they have to tell because they don’t get it if they are just shown. So I end up having to spell it out for them pointing out “hey you remember how it showed us this? That was to let you know this.” Then they’re all like “oh!” If people are not paying attention or have the attention span for long form narrative (this includes TV eps, films, novels, even podcast episodes) then can you really be surprised that authors and filmmakers have to be more overt in their themes? It’s annoying for those of us who know how stories work but necessary for those who don’t to have a chance to get it. And even then they still might not because they’re not paying attention. 😑

[averywlittle]

The reality is writers can't make a living pouring their mind and soul into a single world like Tolkien did. He spent decades building his world, languages, cultures... modern writers, unless already retired, can't afford to take that long. Professional writers have like a two year cycle between releases, sometimes less.

[eypandabear]

My problem with hard magic systems is that they often feel like some kind of separate extra physics. In myths and legends, the laws of nature themselves are fuzzy and ill-understood, and magic is just part of them. Imagine making things like bronze, or steel, or even just beer or cheese, without knowing anything about solid state physics or chemistry or microbiology. That was people’s reality for thousands of years. If a famed blacksmith figured out a special quenching technique to harden his swords, that might seem just as “magical” as a spell. With a hard magic system, you are introducing a division between magic and the rest of nature (which ostensibly follows our known laws of physics). It can be great in its own right, but care must be taken in terms of consistency within itself and the world around it.

[rambling]

There's a quote I can't find, but it goes something like - "the best books you'll ever read will be the ones you read between the ages of fourteen and sixteen." I think the age might be a bit low, but it's a profound truth. The first time we're exposed to an idea, we find it amazing and deep and clever. The fortieth time, we find it boring and obvious and derivative. We can still find great enjoyment from fiction as adults, but we can't get that sense of wonder back. It's like how people will swear that the best music ever released was during their university years. Sometimes, we just miss the person we were when we first encountered it.

[alkrimiy]

I’ve never understood the so-called "Tolkien fatigue." Speaking from my own experience—and I admit I haven’t read all the classic fantasy books—it seems to me that most fantasy authors are fully realized creators in their own right. I’ve read works by Ursula Le Guin, Michael Moorcock, Robert Howard, Terry Pratchett, Glen Cook, Gene Wolfe, Roger Zelazny, Peter S. Beagle and others. None of them gave me the impression of being 'just as Tolkien, nothing new'.

The only series that came close might be The Wheel of Time, but even that feels more like a tribute to classic tropes than a mere imitation of The Lord of the Rings. So, I honestly don’t understand what people are reading if they think fantasy has been dominated by Tolkien knock-offs. Also, 'generic fantasy' in my understanding is something more DnD or WoW style, not Tolkien style.

[dioneosphorus]

"Hard magic system" is magic adapted to the modern, science-oriented mind. We need to know exactly how it works, its rules, equations and what we can do with it. It has become like gravity.

[anne.]

For me another thing that makes LOTR so timeless is language. It´s written in a way that I feel like the story I´m reading is really part of the world it takes place in. The world feels like it has thousands of years of history and stories and Tolkien´s language blends in very well. Nothing feels out of place.

And what makes it so good in my opinion is the universality of the topics. It´s a story of good and evil, fear and valor, friendship and love, loyalty and betrayal, life and death, and it shows that even the smallest among us can make a difference. These are universal topics everyone can relate to and they touch our hearts in a special way. Sam talks to Frodo about the great stories they grew up with, the stories that meant something, and Tolkien manages to make their story feel like one of these great stories that outlast time. Like in a thousand years every child in Middle Earth will know the story of the fellowship.

[angryvaultguy]

One thing i hate is how unimmersive some modern fantasy is

In game of thrones characters talked like people who are a part of the world and people looked like where they came from, so northen people have black hair and white, dornish people have brown skin and curly hair

It may sound silly to people but i just like it when fantasy is more grounded and immersive like this, and they don't talk like college students or look like a multicultural convention but they all somehow come from the same place

[allisongryski]

One result of a heavy focus on world-building seems to me that many authors feel like they need to STUFF all that into the book explicitly. I like it best when the author has clearly thought out a fully realised and consistent world history and magic system, but does not feel the need to share every last detail in the book. When they've got it all figured out, but don't weigh the narrative down with the details, the storytelling feels more natural, the reader still has a sense of wonder over the mysteries, and yet you don't have sudden shifts in rules because the author is working within their world consistently.

[JoelAdamson]

I hate that I have to keep saying this, and I know I'm shouting into a very deep and dark well, but fantasy in the 80s and 90s was not all Tolkien clones. I'm not saying some authors didnt directly copy Tolkien (Terry Brooks and David Eddings, for example), but the deconstruction started as soon as LOTR was published. Even the Wheel of Time, which people incorrectly refer to as "classic fantasy, " is a deconstruction of hero myths. The part that really cracks me up is that authors like R.F. Kuang go around acting like the last thirty years NEVER HAPPENED. As if ASOIAF didn't make all the points; as if fantasy is still about chosen ones and prophecies and all the books are based on medieval Europe. That's nonsense. But when they keep saying it, literary agents believe it. Everyone has a totally warped perception of the genre, despite the changes they've successfully made. Fantasy wasn't even like that in the 80s. I was there! So to answer your question, yes fantasy has lost its soul because a lot of writers, agents, and editors haven't done their homework.

[Tt-qmxg]

I agree with you on being hand feed all the information.

There's a big difference between leading people to the message of your novel through subtle hints and the way people/animals and culture interact with the environment, and then just being talked at.

[KyleMaxwell]

There's perhaps a bit of irony in the fact that this discussion happens at such a rapid pace with so many in-your-face editing elements. I recognize that's the style of video that Youtube seems to prefer, but that might be an instructive parallel.

[PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Great explanation of the ubi sunt theme, Johan! My feeling is that a lot of the preferences you find in modern fantasy, such as less description and less room for thematic development, are a result of people’s expectations for storytelling being heavily influenced by stories on screens. An example: As much as I enjoy Jackson’s LOTR films, they actually are much faster-paced than the books and lose a great deal of the reverence (though not all of it) that is derived from the “slower” moments in the books. And yet, many people growing up on fantasy today express a strong preference for the films over the books.

[Dylan_Devine]

I think another issue is the general fear of sincerity; most creators (whether they be writers, musicians, artists, etc.) are afraid of being vulnerable, so they have to wrap everything in multiple layers of irony and meta-jokes and pop-culture references and such. They don't want to just tell a sincere story.

[jonahgrignon]

For all you can praise rhe guy, and maybe rightfully so, I think so many of these changes can be traced directly back to Brandon Sanderson. Something I don't often see brought up is how fruustratingly unsubtle he is about his characters and themes. I think he set the pace for characters who will loudly and unsubtly announce "this is how i feel!!!" And everyone loving it

[FunFantasyBooks]

I am just reading Fellowship of the Ring and the whole scene of Tom Bombadil was so bizarre but wholesome! hahah I died with you almost singing "old tom bombadil! he's a merry fellow!" Great video!