The Problem With Vintage Steinway & Sons Pianos

As a retailer of vintage Steinway & Sons pianos, we are coming clean today. Steinway has built and maintained an American piano brand that has been a dominant player for over 100 years. That being said, they have done so well with building their brand that it sometimes causes a vintage antique Steinway to be valued higher than the piano really is and higher than a similar piano made by another manufacturer. You can increase the value of an antique Steinway by rebuilding, but ideally, one would take care when rebuilding and keep the soundboard and have a paper trail to keep the value. What do you think about vintage Steinway pianos? #Steinway #SteinwayAndSons #VintageSteinway #Pianos

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[StephenBay-ux]

Played a rebuilt 1928 Steinway M that sounded better than every other piano at the shop of 180 pianos. It outperformed the new Kawai and Yamaha

[eddiehuss]

I have a 1919 Model M Steinway. It was restrung in 2003, new Steinway hammers installed in 2004. It sounds great.
I have a Masters degree in piano performance and I know a good piano when i play it.

[johnellis]

Wow probably the best discussion on vintage Steinway's I have ever listened to. I own a 1907 Steinway model O in amazing condition with original sound board, yes its beautiful but not any better than a Bluthner or Bechstein of the same era etc. An aggressive marketing has kept the Steinway name at the forefront but sadly this has robbed music lovers of some of the wonderful sounds of many European pianos.

[davidhelweg]

I tuned a 1929 Mason & Hamlin. I loved it.

[jamnee]

I really like Mason & Hamlin pianos for their warm sound.

[jasonwheelock]

I think some of what is missed here is the personal connection an owner has with her/his instrument. In a few days (June 10th, 2022), I will celebrate my 20th anniversary of being custodian (some say "owner") of a 1932 Steinway M serial #272021. She is perfect in every way for me. While all hammers and felts (and likely many if not all strings) were replaced, she is just a beautiful instrument. Even over these last 20 years, it feels like she has mellowed, warmed, and become a better instrument. I was very lucky in acquiring her as the prior owner was aging and had (sadly) bad arthritis (he was replacing it with a high-end Baldwin with lighter movements). He wanted the instrument to go to someone who PLAYED and not just used as a piece of home decor. So, way back in 2002, I went to his home to "audition" for the instrument. I immediately, on playing, fell in love with the warm, rich tones this instrument produced. The asking price was $26k. I was 26 years old. I could not afford this, but wanted so much to have this instrument. After the audition, he sold it to me for $16k, including drayage and an amazing vintage piano chair (Sikes company, Philly...havent been able to find out more about it). I play this piano at least 3 times a week and love her. I have played Bosendorfer, higher-end Yamaha, Boston, Bechstein, and many other "regular" pianos. This one owns my heart. I have an obligation (nothing to do with financial investment) to care for her and ensure she'll have a new steward. My tuner is a retired tuner for a major music college in my area. He doesn't actually tune as a profession anymore, but keeps tuning this instrument. I think he has fallen in love with the instrument just as I have. She is in great physical shape - no chips or discoloration in ivory - just lovely in every way. He did suggest I might consider revoicing the instrument at some point. I am not sure what that means. Internet searches seem very vague about this. Based on my long-winded comment...any thoughts on best I can care for her and if "revoicing" is something I should consider?

[miltronix]

They don't have the PR and marketing machine of S & S, but Mason & Hamlin is certainly right up there with them in quality and interest in vintage instruments, no? I played my Senior Recital years ago on a newish and meticulously maintained M & H BB (7') and it was incredible... better than any S & S B I ever heard or played. Other M & H I've come across are equally good. Among musicians I know, a vintage M & H is revered just as much as a vintage S & S is. And they support rebuilders- none of that STEIN-WAS nonsense.

[g.]

We had a terrible experience when visiting our new local Steinway dealer. We bought a new SK6 at Portland Piano and are very very happy with it and the experience at the showroom. Steinway might be a great piano but it’s not necessarily the best choice. The Steinway sales person pretty much told us that anything other than Steinway is okay if you are just a “moderate” player. I’ll never set foot in that showroom again. Thanks for all the videos you do.

[frazzledude]

There are many factors that go into the value of a vintage piano and what somebody is willing to pay for it. Sometimes it is just an average piano that has an interesting pedigree. I own a 1931 New York Steinway M. It is all original, but it is of historic interest because it is the very first production Steinway accelerated action. It was played and autographed by Josef Hofmann, and it was also autographed by Theodore Steinway before it left the factory in 1931. It also is the personal piano of Benny Goodman who owned it up until his death in 1986. Does that make the piano any more valuable to a buyer? It depends on who the prospective buyer is and how much they want the piano.

As for piano brands, I also own a Fazioli 10-foot concert grand and a Bosendorfer imperial grand. The Bosendorfer is from 1993, before Yamaha bought Bosendorfer. The Fazioli is a superb instrument, every bit as good as a Steinway D. And the Bosendorfer imperial grand is also an excellent instrument. The build quality and craftsmanship on both the Fazioli and the Bosendorfer are top notch, every bit as good as the best Steinway. However, each piano has its own "personality" and sound. When it comes to the top tier pianos, everybody has their own personal preferences. There is no one "best piano brand" in the world.

[califdad]

My Episcopal church about 2011, got a parlor Grand Mason Hamlin and its beautiful, our old organist said it was so nice he'd give up his old Steinway for that piano

[nedludd]

Keith Jarrett's best jazz piano album ever was 'Koln' (Cologne in Germany). He plays free-form jazz on a piano: no sheet music, totally improvised. Apparently, the vintage baby grand in the Cologne Opera House was usually used backstage for rehearsals. It had some sticky keys (also issues with the tuning maybe?) and he really struggled to create anything out of the instrument. If you listen to the recording, you can actually hear him (complaining?) as he performs. The result is acknowledged by many to be his best work ever - the highest selling solo jazz album of all time. The impediment he faced brought the very best out of him. What was the make of the piano? I ain't a jazzer but even I love that album.

[stepheebee]

I bought a 1937 Steinway L that had a gently used Renner action put in recently. It was love at first touch, especially the bell-like treble. Ultimately it didn't matter to me whether all parts were official Steinway. As long as it plays and sounds amazing, and I'm inspired by it, that's what counts.

[davidtaylor]

The studio I use has a 7” Baldwin concert grand. It wasn’t that expensive, I think around 18k . A little beat up cabinet but it’s become my favorite piano ever . I don’t l ow why I just love that instrument.

[firebrand]

I have handled thousands of pianos over my life for artist from Van Cliburn to so many other notable artist that I couldn't even tell you. Steinways were usually the choice of most, but it was always a specific Steinway and they usually had a specific crew that handled it, tuned it and maintained it. To keep the sound accurate as some explained to me. I have also seen parents by their small children Steinway grands and the children was so upset because to them the action was to heavy for them. Especially if they came from a Kawaii, Yamaha or Essex. Love this explanation, its an instrument and its up to the ear and ability of the player on their aim.

[russd.]

As always, it comes down to the individual piano. I am not a fan of the marketing techniques Steinway uses, but I get it. To me, the real value of an instrument is in its immediate playability and connection to its tone; not the brand. I used to have a lifelong dream of owning a Steinway, but now my dream is much more simple: find a piano that truly resonates and responds to me.

[seancregomusic]

I agree with everything you have said! S&S is just a brand, and any of them built after the late 1980s are just...another piano. But the brand name keeps it going. It drives me nuts, but my frustration over it can't convince everyone to change their minds. People then ask me why you see S&S everywhere, and what people don't realize is that S&S makes contracts with venues where the venue gets a S&S provided to them, so they use it, and artists (even a lot of YouTube artists) get provided S&S for free or on loan, so again, S&S is providing the instrument, so any rational person would take the S&S no questions asked. This keeps their brand momentum going, even though they are just another piano these days, but the layperson is none the wiser.

And the vintage ones...well, in general "an old piano is just an old piano", regardless of the name, except in very unusual circumstances where it was taken care of in a pristine manner. Someone I know has a 1080 (the worst upright ever built), and the owner tells everyone that they have one of the best pianos...but it's from the 70s and was never maintained, tuned every few years, and so it. It's like playing a cardboard box that kids put wire on as a school project.

I once talked to a S&S dealer who sold other pianos, too, and when he realized I was a piano person, we had a great chat about how he sells S&S as just expensive furniture to the general person who has the money to spend, but sold the great pianos to the piano people. :)

[jwright]

Thank you for the presentation. Very interesting comments. Seems to be like a fine wine. Even the best brands and vintages can produce mediocre or underwhelming results.
I was studying marine engineering as a young man in Baltimore and managed to gain access to the practice rooms at the Peabody Institute. As you might imagine, I felt so privileged to play many different pianos, sizes and model. I was really impressed with the Yamaha‘s and even the uprights.
Fast forward 10 years later I bought a 1948 S Model Steinway. I’ve enjoyed that piano for almost 30 years.
I was hoping to upgrade to a larger grander sound. And being that I am pretty much sold on the Steinway brand, I started looking around the used market. Incredibly pricey for sure. Then I landed on a vintage 1881 rosewood C model. A highly reputable dealer out of Utah is completely overhauling the inside and out. We are keeping the original soundboard which is being shimmed and re-cambered. Renner hammers and the same strings Steinway uses. I’m going with a high gloss finish to bring out the grain pattern. Keeping the original ivory keys, replacing a few chipped and cracked ones then cleaning and polishing. New decals all around including the sides. It comes with the more modern legs, which I think are less outdated than the turned round flower pot ones. I located a Rosewood filagree very ornate music desk in the UK which will make that piano pop. I procured a huge gorgeous matching rosewood ornate piano bench with white satin top. Meanwhile, I have the S model Steinway for sale, proceeds of which will be the down payment for the C model. Total cost including delivery to California- $30, 000.
There’s more. I did bronze sculpture for years. jaywright.com.
You’ve seen the very ornate gold trim and detailing on the😊 custom rococo and Louis XIV models. That’s my plan for my C model. It will be one of a kind tricked out in my own unique custom styling. I am so excited. This gem is replacing the wife of 20 years.

[JayMSinger]

I have a 1929 M that I've had my technician rebuild. He insisted on using Steinway parts to maintain the integrity of the instrument. Even the bass strings, he told me, were Steinway parts. Of course, the soundboard is original and in excellent condition. I love my instrument.

[studentjohn]

One problem with old Steinways has to with their patented tubular metallic action frame. In the 1980's I encountered the most rare of instruments, a 1902 vintage Steinway C227 in Rosewood. The owner was complaining to me about a clicking sound when she played, that her previous technician was unable to fix. So as i pulled the action out to assess, I saw the problem immediately. The wood inside the let-off button rail had expanded and split the metal sleeve all across the middle of its length. So the piano still worked. the let-off buttons could be adjudted, as the threads were into wood. But the sound of the wood rattling inside the metal sleeve was objectionable. And of course (Steinway's patent) the tubular rails are soldered into the brackets. The only way to fix it is to take the action into a shop for a tear-down rebuild, which the customer didn't want.

[RG-lizq]

I have a 1900
Steinway model B. Has never been rebuilt and well maintained. I love the warm sound, commanding bass and crystal clear treble.