I was wrong

Iskall had recently discussed a big change of dungeon vaults and realizes that he was wrong about the proposed solution, so he explains another solution instead while he is on the VHSMP.

Full VOD will soon be available - this part was streamed on August 16 2024.

Follow me on X: @iskall85

[seppea]

I don't know. I love the game but I think I agree with everyone here, if people want to cheese why is it such a bad thing? 99% of the people playing this are wanting to play it casually with friends or themselves, if these issues are so bad in the SMP then make those changes in the server, the pack a whole has such amazing variety and plenty of people play it without cheesing. I guess I just don't see how this is healthy for anyone. It feels like it punishes people for no other reason than 'Iskall doesn't like this playstyle.'

[dulcerolindeaux]

"And the award for most passive agressive video clip goes to..." 🤣😂🤣😂

[silvertears]

As someone who is bad at PvE, im super disappointed in this :/
Why are we being forced to specifc playstyles, and why is it so convoluted???
Just let people play as they want to play

[WardNightstone]

ISKAL: i dont want to tell ppl how to play
Also iskal: STOP PLAYING WRONG!

[seanlego]

Iskall, you're falling into the game designer's trap, whether intentional or not. You're trying to make it so that everyone must play the game within your predefined vision for the game. You will never accomplish this and only turn many people away from the game. Let people who play outside this vision do so, as most will play the way the game is intended to be played. Not everyone has the time to "get good" or get rid of their "skill issues", but still enjoy the game the way they play it. Focus on making more features, or making the game better, not trying to over-design/over-engineer the game to remove "cheese strats" that only some people use. I say all this as a game developer where I have seen this done to quite a few games. People want games they can play, not games that punish them for how "bad" they are at the game. That's my two cents.

[SoshJam]

This does remove the thing where you try to sneak into an Impossible dungeon and loot as many chests as you can without waking anything up. It felt like a heist and was pretty fun. If people want to cheese let them cheese but I don’t see why that should punish the rest of us. VH is not competitive so it should be fine if people want to play in an unintended way.

Especially since the item quantity/rarity from chest breakers likely won’t affect the loot from the mobs. Please take that into account somehow to not just make harder difficulties of dungeons not worth doing.

[GikamesShadow]

In my opinion, you are trying to fix something that doesnt need a fix. Respectfully.
As someone who has been following the development of a game known as "7 Days 2 Die" and also witnessed its fall from grace, one thing that stuck out to me was the devs always attempting to nerf any tactic players found to be able to cheese the game. This lead to practically an arms race of "Who can do what without triggering the other side to respond". The issue with this is that instead of the Devs developing the game in the way they should have, they ended up spending more development time on what players wanted to do and in turn didnt develop the features that were needed.

They treated it like it was a competition when players just wanted to make the most cheesy build ever to survive and have an easier time. And the game is largely speaking Singleplayer as well.

Please do reconsider your approach on this Iskall, let players cheese if they wish to cheese. Make it more difficult if thats what you want of course but sometimes the possibly stupidest and weirdest things have lead to games becoming just more interesting overall. Bugs or Glitches eventually even becoming actual developed features when devs (not from 7D2D) noticed that players had fun with it. Mistakes leading to the development of new things (The first 3D model of a pig being spawned by Notch, turning into a Creeper).

The issue I see mostly is an approach of "This is how you are supposed to play the game" over "Play as you like" if that makes sense. And I would genuinly be sad to see VH go down that road :o

[ArkenStorm]

I feel like this is a really convoluted way to get rid of something that ultimately doesn't matter.
I'm a guy who goes through dungeons normally and bails if things get hairy, and this feels like being punished for the actions of a few people, which is an awful feeling.
What's the big problem with people "cheesing" dungeons? I know, it's "not how it was meant to be played" but like, does that *actually* matter? How does it make the game experience worse for anyone?

This feels very much in the same vein of "if you use summons in Elden Ring you're not a real gamer." It's part of the game, definitely not cheating, so...why?

[jeremyprevost]

The beginning of this season I swear Iskall said he had changed and was focusing on making things fun and less on preventing overpowered builds or caring if people cheese…did I dream that?

[castrogoon]

Quite a few contradictions in this vid. Sometimes we make a 'mistake' and reverse an unpopular decision - that shouldn't mean immediately brainstorm other ideas to replace it, that are equally punitive. Let the dust settle and approach the problem with more clarity. Iskall - it's your baby, but if you want to share it with the world, then remember it takes a village to raise it. Peace!!!

[phaedra]

Respectully, I highly disagree with this change. I think you should just let people play as they want. It's different than some other things you've change such as OP skills that make it so you almost have to take that skill in order to play. This isn't like that at all. I personally don't place blocks in dungeons but I do love the sneaking into impossible dungeons and trying to nab some loot before the mobs spawn. This change takes a lot of that away.
Overall, I'm just not sure why yall have been so focused on dungeons and changing them constantly. I think they are great as they are, especially with the new(ish) layouts and sizes.

[jaredfowler]

This feels like you're not encouraging people to play how they like and instead punishing them for playing different from you. I don't even play with pillaring or door blocking and this still feels like a slap. Also, as someone who plays only sky vaults, I really dislike the idea of not being able to obtain blocks from vaults. I used to be excited for VH updates, but the string of punishing people for playing their way is really dissuading further interest in the project.

[Mester]

So you left in the way they did it, and changed something else so it doesn't work anymore, while saying "but I left it in, place blocks, it just won't achieve the same thing, but Ieft it in so you can't be

[RoyteMC]

I feel like I walked into the middle of an argument about pizza toppings.

[MrScotttraynor]

im right, and im going to let you do something, but then change something else to achieve the same effect

[mhelvens]

I guess Iskall is trying to build a balanced competitive game. And that's his perogative. But as a casual player it often feels like he's saying: "Your way of having fun is not valid. Only have fun my way, please."

Is that unfair of me? Maybe.

[SnyperMKJclL]

I have seen some others mention this so i will too...
Stop changing things because they fall "outside your personal playstyle". While you are an awesome person, your playstyle is NOT everyones playstyle.
Add features, dont restrict us to "your style", like work really hard on the amazing skill builds that YOU do NOT use but others enjoy. Make sure everyone has the opportunity to play in their own style and not be forced into your own style.

[peble_]

It’s a single player game, let people play how they want and spend your time as a developer adding more content, polishing more features, and expanding the core gameplay. In the grand scheme of your game it doesn’t make sense to spend so much time and effort trying to force players to “git gud” and have fun the exact same way you do, your job as a developer is to make a game that people enjoy and taking away certain playstyles because it’s not how you personally play the game seems like it goes against the idea of making a game that’s fun for everyone. Not to mention the way you plan on going about it is super convoluted and will not be easily understood by new players. it seems like you care more about punishing certain players, than you do about making gameplay features straightforward, fun, and rewarding.

[iceneko]

You have me scratching my head here. It isnt really a problem for people to cheese dungeons if they really want. Blocking pathways also lets them try to bail. I dont agree that thats a form of cheese
Heck, if you manage to make the dungeons more intricate, block placement will help guide the player out of the maze since they cant mine out of it.
How did this end up as such a big deal you needed to make a video?
Edit: if this is a joke video, it didnt come off clearly enough. Though the walls beocming invulnerable sounds like a neat experiment.

[mickobee]

Damn he seems Hella salty he got so much push back on the block thing