The Making Of The Western Mind | Tom Holland

In this conversation, John joins Tom Holland in his London home to discuss Christianity’s role in shaping Western civilisation. Holland prompts us to reflect on the intricate moral web our society still upholds today and consider the intertwined history of the Western imagination and Christianity. John and Tom also discuss cyclical patterns seen through the historical record, the notable decline of Christian faith and the impact of increasing secularisation.

Tom Holland is an award-winning historian, author and broadcaster. He is the author of many award-winning books on topics ranging from Ancient Rome and the Persian Empire to the origins of the Islamic faith. Despite his non-belief, Holland’s most recent book, Dominion, is a sweeping account of the impact of Christianity on foundational Western institutions, constitutional norms, morality and social outlooks. It is one of the most compelling histories of Christendom yet written.

Tom Holland served two years as the Chair of the Society of Authors and is Chair of the British Library’s PLR Advisory Committee. Holland is the presenter of BBC Radio 4’s Making History. He has written and presented a number of TV documentaries, for the BBC and Channel 4, on subjects ranging from ISIS to dinosaurs. He is also the host of a widely popular history podcast called The Rest Is History.
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00:00 Intro
0:45 Introducing Tom Holland
2:19 Appeal of History, and human nature
6:59 History as facts and fiction
12:04 The decline of Christian faith
18:35 How has Christianity changed over time
28:43 Importance of The Cross
33:53 Foundation of Western moral judgements
37:17 Secularisation of Christian ideas
43:02 Deconstructing symbols and embodiments
48:43 Cycles of Western History
58:20 Alternate views
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Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues.

John believes proper, robust dialogue is necessary if we are to maintain our social strength and cohesion. As he puts it; "You cannot get good public policy out of a bad public debate."

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The Rest Is History Podcast

[GhostPrefix]

Tom fast becoming one of my favourite thinkers. Great discussion.

[StanEby]

"Literature adds to reality, it does not simply describe it. It enriches the necessary competencies that daily life requires and provides; and in this respect, it irrigates the deserts that our lives have already become." C. S. LEWIS

[petesmith]

Tom’s podcast with Dominic is the most entertaining, dare I say addictive, podcasts available. It’s called “The Rest is History” and it will have you literally laughing out loud.

[chadjohns]

I've read 3 of Tom's books: In the Shadow of the Sword, Persian Fire, and Rubicon: Last Days of the Roman Empire, he's got such a talent for bringing history to life. Great author of our time

[hazchemel]

Thank you so much. In a non-religious setting, a free and public discourse, with respect and carefully chosen words, a significant mind addresses the actual root of civilisation, the very mansion of our culture.

[reneeshort]

Any educated person instinctively knows these things but it takes courage to stand up for your intellectual position. It broadens you and when shared can broaden others.

[williamhyman]

"The cross is such an odd thing to have as a focus of veneration", says Tom. I couldn't agree more. This is my introduction to Tom and I'm beginning to Tom and I'm beginning to like what he says very much.

[felicityhenderson]

Tom Holland is an amazingly articulate speaker, which makes his talks and interviews even more enjoyable.

[kbeetles]

Interesting times! Non-religious people from various walks of life are beginning to lament on how a desacralised way of life and ideologies are a dead end. For the onlooker it appears to be almost synchronised... - the Lord is a great master of timing!

[notlimey]

Tolkien had a very sophisticated idea of 'myth' which rejected the word as indicating something false, but rather as something intrinsically true but presented in a different fashion than that of science.

[kaylenehousego]

You are such a fast learner John.
I have been learning from you, for two years now, many thanks to you both.

[gracegiven]

Excellent interview! I really enjoy listening to Tom Holland. He has a magnificent mind. Kudos to you, John, as well, for the inspiring dialogue.

[xophermc]

Great interview! Tom was at his sharpest.

[nicksibly]

What Tom is really saying is that no matter how much the atheist/humanist types try to distance themselves from Christ, their efforts will be for naught as their very assumptions about human rights stem from Jesus. It's hilarious when you sit back and see it through Tom"s eyes.

[JeansiByxan]

Dominion is a brilliant book, both sophisticated and easy to read. Even if you don't like reading history you might want to give it a try. But take it slow if you want to get something out of it.

[isabelhernaez]

Always learning with you John, forever grateful.

[b.alexanderjohnstone]

This fellow writes excellent history, especially ancient history. So entertaining, yet scholarly.

[davidvirtue]

This is a great interview. Most appreciated. The triumph of the Christian Faith despite its cultured despisers comes across clearly. Love it.

[thagreatadante]

Bought the book last year... No stone unturned. Great read.

[bill]

Another great interview. Great fan of Tom Holland and his history podcast with Dominic Sandbrook. Bought several of his books over the years. Nice bookshelves.