Can we reconcile the Canaanite conquest with a God of love? Paul Copan vs Randal Rauser

How should we understand Old Testament accounts of warfare and violence where God seems to command the slaughter of men, women and children?

Paul Copan, author of 'Is God A Vindictive Bully?' aims to show why the Old Testament accounts, severe as they may seem, are not incompatible with Jesus in the New Testament. Randal Rauser, author of 'Jesus Loves Canaanites', says that too many 'apologists for genocide' are defending the indefensible and argues for an alternative reading of scripture.

They discuss whether the warfare passages are hyperbolic, whether non-combatants would have been killed, and whether the term 'genocide' is appropriate.

For Paul Copan's debate with Greg Boyd in 2018: Part 1 & Part 2

[blocker]

Absolutely fascinating discussion. One of the very best broadcasts I’ve heard. I thought Randall was particularly convincing. He seemed to deal with the issues more directly and clearly.

[cordful]

Riveting conversation. Both made persuading cases, which is sorely needed; too much content out there is one-sided or straw manning another side's position, so it's very refreshing to have different views brought out in conversation by intellectual equals, in a respectful and honest way. Well done.

[mikegrecamusic]

This channel is unbelievably thought provoking! Thank you for this content!

[AncientEntendres]

For those struggling with God’s judgement, chapter 25 entitled “Holy War” of Dr. Heiser’s Unseen Realm could possibly help reconcile this. It made much more sense to me when I took a closer look as to what is going on here.

[maddym.r.]

Great and thought provoking discussion.

[samsmith]

Love these guys! Can’t wait to hear the discussion

[johnbeaubien]

50:23 WOAH!! He went there! Am impressed with the honesty of this theologian.

[cobusprinsloo]

Pity that there are not thousands more views of such an important debate such as this.

[The_Scouts_Code]

Randall won this, I think - at about @1:10:00 when Copan refused to answer yet again in an honest manner. Let me help Mr. Copan - the correct, honest answer is "yes, civilians were deliberately targeted".

[georgegabriel]

Randal does very well here. Copan is hugely frustrating - he elongates answers, I think to avoid difficult questions he knows he is on shaky ground with.

[zhugh]

I love how Copan described rape as "inherently problematic". Such a forceful condemnation.

[bilbobaggins]

I think both guys did a good job and am still not totally convinced of either viewpoint. However, I do find and appreciate that Paul’s view seems more nuanced. Randall’s thesis that we should be guided first and foremost by our most immediate moral intuitions seems too simplistic of a resolution for my liking. Our moral intuitions need to be heavily considered most certainly but I think our problem more likely lies in a lack of knowledge or understanding of the context concerning these passages.

[HeavensLegacy]

Dr Michael Heiser links the Canaanite conquest with the Sons of God in Genesis 6.

[Brandon-bm]

Michael Heiser's take is a better approach in Unseen Realm, chapter "Holy War"... that the Joshua wars are directed to annihilation of the giants in Canaan.

[danielcartwright]

Randall seems a little too stuck on the definition of genocide including dismantling a culture. If a culture practiced very evil things as part of their religious heritage, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with dismanteling those aspects of the culture, regardless of whether we could technically call it genocide or not.

[thebiblicalanarchypodcast]

Who uses the term genocide the way Randal does?

[PC-vgvn]

The problem with 'moral intuition' is that it is by definition dependant on the particular time and culture in which the individual lives. I would suggest such intuition in our culture today would be quite different for people's intuition 2 or 3000 years ago in a Roman, Greek or other culture. Because it is so relative, it is hardly a good measuring stick to use to judge God's possible actions in any specific circumstances.

[dearestsimone]

Such difficult stuff. I have to take comfort in the fact Jesus Christ himself would have known about the wiping out of the Canaanites, and would have either been able to explain it to us, or would carried the burden of it with him to the cross. Perhaps he suffered by the fact of it, the mystery of it, much more than we do.

[BigIdeaSeeker]

Randal Rauser is the most honest Christian apologist I know. Whether dealing with the atrocities of Yahweh or the horrors of Ravi Zacharias, he stands alone. Among apologists who will dare to acknowledge how truly difficult these questions are. Somehow he maintains his faith through it all. But I lost my faith upon reading Copan’s Moral Monster book back in 2008 or so. From there, Turek, JW Wallace, Koukl, Craig McDowell, and other have increasingly disappointed me with their tendency to try gloss over it dodge harsh realities of the faith. Worse, they have constantly made claims about atheists and atheism that are demonstrably false and disparaging. Meanwhile, Rauser once again keeps his integrity by engaging in honest, intelligent, and fair conversations with atheists on his blog and in his books like “Is the Atheist My Neighbor?” and “A Christian and an Atheist Go into a Bar.” Evangelical apologists would do well to related the gospel (and fruits of the spirit) as Rauser understands it.

[anselman]

Two things require to be brought into consideration: 1) God is daily causing men, women and children to suffer sickness and death as a judgement against human sin, and 2) Death is not the end of a person's existence. God has provided an after-life. Therefore, the whole question can not be considered only in terms of the harm suffered by person in this life as the ultimate evil.