Why do jazz musicians hate each other?

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Why do jazz musicians hate each other?

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[bettersax]

Thanks for your thoughts on this Dave. I ask myself the same questions all the time and see a lot of these disturbing comments. Here's my assesment of what is going on...

The saxophone and music are hard to get good at. It takes a lot of work that very few people have the will power and dedication for. There are many people who would like to identify as saxophone players though (rightly so since sax players are generally awesome).

Thanks to social media, people can now identify themselves as experts or especially knowledgeable about any given topic without having to do any of the work normally required. People can voice opinions in public forums without qualifying their expertise in any way. The bar for entry is having an email account. Some of these people take their frustrations out on others specifically targeting the people who have, ironically, done the most hard work (ex. Chad, Leo, Kenny, you).

While I have a lot empathy for anyone who is frustrated with their saxophone or musical progress, the truth is that this behavior is lazy and vicious. There is no place for it in music. You are right to call them out, but the motivation behind these personal attacks is clear. People leaving those comments are masking their personal frustrations by attempting to bring down the tall poppies of the world. The only cure for this is doing the work. Anyone who has been humbled by the task of truly working on getting good at something so difficult is much less likely to feel so threatened by others' successes.

Happy New Year to you bro.

[alejandrosantana]

Dude really wrote that Leo should trade fours with Gary Smulyan prolly without the knowledge that legends like Joe Temperley AND GARY SMULYAN were his teachers at MSM

[JacksonCotugno]

Arts people can get far up their own asses if they're not careful. They can get sucked into really esoteric stuff and then suddenly anything that appeals to the general public is seen as "easy" or "selling out" or "boring" when really it's their own tastes that have just gotten so specific. It's so easy to forget just how difficult it is to reach people and entertain people with music. It takes an entirely different skill set compared to mastering the technicality of your medium. The harsh reality is that art rarely speaks for itself. It is up to you, the artist to become an advocate. The people mentioned in your video have done an amazing job of stepping up and bringing people into the community and should be commended, not shamed.

[samm.]

Shame on Phil Barone for the dirty joke mocking on a young player's manhood in public social media. If you don't like Leo's playing, just say you don't like him and that would be fine. What in the world that you call him small PP? Isn't this a bully in sax community? He even wrote a "book" recently on SOTW to defend himself.

[IamSaralinka]

Chad and Leo P are amazing players. They’re both entirely unique yet breathe life into the jazz saxophone scene.

Also, they’re both gorgeous 🤩

[thomascousins]

I love the saxophone and find it fantastic that there is such a variety of players of this instrument. These days I'm totally impressed and listening a lot to women players such as Roxy Coss, Melissa Aldana, Nubya Garcia, Nicole Glover, Amy Dickson, etc... Every individual player has something to offer and it's great that their hard work and talent is being recognized. There's no need for all this bickering. Open up your heart and LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN FOR THE LOVE OF THE MUSIC.

[albertmueller]

Great comments, Dave, and thank you. I haven't played for years and have just picked up the horn again recently. I've been listening to Chad, Jay Metcalf and you for the last few months and learning a lot. Years ago I was discouraged and was simply no longer motivated to keep playing. After 30 years, I'm inspired to play again. Thank you. As far as it goes for Chad, he's phenomenal. I love listening to him play.

[kerrybarnes]

I'm a jazz Guitarist I find learning your sax line has helped my solo lines

[manracmolactrac]

They just have hatred in their heart because they haven't had their souls saved by the Chosen One yet. I always wear Kenny G shirts to my local jazz jams and it always riles up at least one player - honestly one of the best investments you can make if you like rustling feathers.

[tomrees]

I came across Chad’s videos recently and as someone who comes to YouTube to learn stuff rather than find music to listen to I think he is fantastic. For starters he seems a genuinely nice guy who is putting content out there to help players improve. Whether or not I think he is the next John Coltrane or Wayne Shorter or Chris Potter doesn’t matter to me in the context of YouTube. I’ve learnt a lot from him already and I have only watched a fraction of his stuff. If I didn’t even play an instrument I think I’d watch his videos because he cheers me up😊

[DDamager]

Totally agree with you! I have experienced a lot of gatekeeping and elitism in the realm of playing saxophone. No reason for it.

[michaelszlachta]

Dave - Excellent commentary!
GO PHILLIES 2023

[beckyn]

Chad is 100% class act. Not only is he incredibly skilled, but he is an inspiration to so many, even me. I joined his studio and Chad (and Andrew Gould - another fantastic player) have always been incredibly kind, patient, and immensely helpful. I will defend Chad’s musicianship and his character any day.

[marklangsax]

Very well said. I have been a member of a couple of online sax forums including, for a number of years back in the early 2000s, one which I think is probably the biggest and best known. I stopped using it around 2007 and pretty much dont engage with forums anymore for this exact same reason. There are some lovely and helpful people to be found on jazz forums. There are also a lot of very opinionated people who have set themselves up as arbiters of what is acceptable to listen to or to play. I got so fed up people tearing down or ridculing others or of people (including me) being told that their horn was sh*t because it is not a certian make or vintage. Shame because the good stuff was good but life is too short for all that negativity. As for Kenny - if I were him I wouldn't give the haters a second thought. Best selling instrumentalist of all time or something like that isn't he??

[morganwhite]

Believe it or not it is widespread. I used to play in an orchestra, lead, and the composer I later found out was going onto forums and biography pages of me and ripping me to others. He did it ‘anonymously’ but then stupidly put his name on one of his comments which had the same language of all the other hateful comments about me. Very hurtful, and kind of killed my belief in what I was doing and why. I never forgot his cruelty and hypocrisy.

[rosstones]

Right on for standing up for Chad, Leo, and Kenny. I am a student of Chad via the ebooks and it's been great.

[drronclark]

Spot on Dave! It’s bad enough that it occurs between amateurs, but when people in the industry do it, it’s especially disappointing. I can definitely relate. When asked to name a saxophone players that inspired me by a guy in the industry, I named one of my saxophone heroes (Jay Beckenstein of Spyro Gyra). He immediately scoffed at Jay as being a “smooth jazz playing hack” instead of a serious jazz musician like Michael Brecker (who also happens to be a personal favorite). When I pointed out to him that “serious” musician Michael Brecker (and Randy Brecker) played on the first 5 albums of Spyro Gyra, he was in disbelief, until I proved it to him. It just goes to show that the jazz snobs that critique more popular guys like Kenny G, Jay Beckenstein, Dave Sanborn, etc. as being somehow inauthentic aren’t as knowledgeable as they would have others believe.

[martincommunications]

I don't get it. Chad is beyond talented. That guy's talent is like the the Bugatti of musicianship.

[vladimirlopez]

I was on a forum years ago and I was made a moderator. I learned there’s a lot of crap being spewed on forums. Today I no longer live on forums like I once did.

[aljerones]

I've recently started watching some of your content, Dave and then this video popped up in my feed.

Hallelujah and AMEN!

I could say so much but you have already put it out there.

I've met some musicians who have been instrumental in inspiring me and even though I might not inhabit their genre, I admire, respect and thank them for igniting and propelling me in my personal journey.

I've heard other musicians whose taste and style are not my preference but I also appreciate what they bring to the table and those they also motivate and influence for good.

I may not be anywhere close in skill or proficiency or financially successful as many of my heroes but they have given me wealth and fulfillment I could not obtain by myself.

One very famous and beloved saxophonist and content creator publically dissed Kenny G on his own channel a few years ago and I quickly (and respectfully) expressed my disappointment at his conduct. Many others eventually chided him. He ended up apologizing and also (eventually) featuring Kenny one video. Much to my pleasure, Kenny as very gracious - he did NOT have to be.

We can and should demand better from our community members and influencers.

I have even greater respect for you now, having seen this video, Dave.

Thank youfor doing this. Respect!