Napoleon: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

Professor Beatrice de Graaf, and Professor Alexander Mikaberidze join Dr Zack White to discuss the life, legacy and complexities of remembering Napoleon Bonaparte.

[steveberryman]

How refreshing and novel three people talking about a subject that they understand and have intelligent views.
More please

[joebeatty]

So sorry to hear about your health issues. Rest up. I look forward to your return. Take care.

[emilkorszun]

Dr White, thank you for your podcast. It is my number one on Spotify . Take care about yourself and come back to us with new strength :) All the best from Poland.

[whyandaccount]

Great discussion.
I hope you have subsequently conquered your demons, and I very much respect the courage displayed in publicly discussing such an issue.
"Are you OK?" is an ongoing process.

[gregoryhilton]

Just recently found your content, enjoying it so far. Take care of yourself, and invest the time you need to maintain yourself.

[azeclecticdog]

Dr. White. Please look after yourself and heal. Take as much time as necessary. Best Wishes.

[Corvinuswargaming]

Do you think you could host a panel on the devastation and destruction caused by the Napoleonic Wars? It might help give context as to why Napoleon’s ambitions were particularly destructive. It also came to mind because in the US we tend to hear about our Civil War being particularly destructive but only recently I have seen that Napoleonic battles were about as deadly.

[michaelstaeheli]

I find the idea that Napoleon was not just a general but also the ruler of an empire compelling. That empire was a new and terrible danger to the other nascent European empires of Britain and Russia. The Napoleonic wars can easily be seen as a continuation of the struggles between empires in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries that created the wars of succession in Spain and Austria and the Seven Years War. But Napoleon was almost too much for the British to handle. He didn’t create the bad blood. He did, however, successfully assert French ambitions for a time through the force of his own personality. The British could never allow that, and they reacted to him using the simple-minded view of him so egregiously expressed in Ridley Scott’s movie.

[shivamchoudhary]

Well done guys, informative as usual.

[marklivingstone]

To do the subject justice, it needs to be an epic on the scale of Lord of the Rings or the Godfather. Peter Weir collaborating with Steven Spielberg could produce the ultimate movie on Napoleon, no need for any further movies.

[royeverson]

Thanks for the insightful chat! If I may add the following: The importance of Public Opinion and its cynical manipulation via propaganda was revolutionized by Napoleon, which combined with extreme narcissistic tendencies led to disastrous results. Signs of this were noticed at least from his Italian campaign of 1796-97 when a mere commanding general made the treaty on his own and crowned himself virtual king of Italy. You all know the story better than I do. His generals noticed his hubris, among the first was General Bernadotte, who was also the first to put Napoleonic legacy into practice, propaganda-wise, in his Scandinavian kingdoms, albeit on his own terms. Without his former emperors delusions he cast a clear eye on the new phenom, Public Opinion.

And BTW, regarding the Ridley Scott film, bad at is we nevertheless have this to appreciate: a cautionary tale -- beware of falling for the charming autocrat who has no end to his professed self esteem. and promises to break the rules. In the film Napoleon is not to be lauded. He sets the standard for strongman dictators for centuries to come.

[alansalazar]

A tad too early for me to join live but a great treat for the New Year - and Alex M is the youngest Don of Napoleonic history so far as I am concerned. Great conversation!

[jpotter]

"Ridley Scott's Napoleon" will beome a (bad) cult film, one so bad you have to see it for yourself because if someone describes its outrages to you, you won't believe it!
On first and only viewing, we were laughing ourselves under the seats.

[MMircea]

I may not have been around when this aired live, but I was geographically pretty close as I spent it on Spinnaker Tower in Portsmouth. Happy New Year, and keep the talks about Monsieur N alive (courtesy of Scott's car crash of a film)🎉🎉

[Urlocallordandsavior]

The fake lake battle scene reminds me a lot of that final battle from the Patriot, very gripping and memorable but didn't happened at all historically. And it's the only thing I remember from the Patriot.

[geertdecoster]

Good luck guys. Just remember what Talleyrand supposingly said about having any opinion on the great man

[jean-charlesblanc]

a very nice discussion and good argument on both sides, I am surprised that Alexander Mikaberidze squirms so much that Napoleon was a warmonger, some of his trusted lieutenants accused this to Napoleon up front, Rapp, Caulaincourt and all what Napoléon did was to smile or failing to argue against that. Though I see that Napoléon is sort more or less under the spell of the lawyers - then he is not this leader, this genius a lot of people are making him but just putting a signature under a document.

[Corvinuswargaming]

In another interview about his book Professor Mikaberidze called Napoleon the last of the enlightened despots, that's what this conversation seemed to bear out. Although, Napoleon's toolkit and effective was more far reaching than Maria Theresa, Joseph II, or Frederick the Great before him. One thing I wonder as a relative novice to Napoleonic history was if Napoleon had some sort of end goal? That come across as a limitation of his vision because he was consistently fighting. George Washington could justifiably be seen as a villain/traitor from a non-American perspective, but the leaders of American independence had fairly defined goals and war aims for the most part whether one agrees or not. Perhaps this is a bad comparison but did Napoleon have an ultimate end in mind?

edit: now I see the panel addresses this!

[Urlocallordandsavior]

I see Napoleon more of a Stalin figure than Washington. Sure he might have accidentally birthed democracy, but he tried to create a European empire in the mold of Stalin and had all of Europe engulfed in war for 15 years. That does also theoretically mean that Louis XIV is also a tyrant too since I think Napoleon was trying to emulate the Sun King (and trying to surpass him).

He also brought as much hell to France as to his enemies by his endless wars. He's like Hannibal in that we see him as unstoppable, but they were both destined for failure and suicide by endless war.

Plus, time after time in history the son of the great conqueror fails to match expectations (Richard Cromwell, Alexander's son, Constantine's sons, Charlemagne's sons).

[EagleLeader]

Great show, hope you feel better soon. Mental health is the newly realized casualty of life that is only now being taken seriously.

Next time have a pro Napoleon historian on for actual debate.

I do disagree highly with the point that Napoleon leaving France legally worse after he left power. Yes France suffered more death, destruction & economically worse. But once he lost power the new powers couldn't wait to reverse his laws. It took a few revolutions for France to re adopt his good laws.