Atheist Debates - Does God have Free Will?

Will (free or not) requires desires or goals, which seem to required uncertainty. If God has perfect knowledge of the future and himself and he's always had this knowledge then not only can he not have free will - it's dubious that he could have will, in any meaningful sense.

[tigers]

Kind of disappointed the video did not end with "popsicle"

[xenontouchstone]

This has been one of my favourite arguments against most claimed gods, the incompatibility of freewill and omniscience, good to hear some of your views on it.

[a.nhonig]

No matter how hard you try, you just can't make the bible make any kind of sense. Love these discussions. Thank you, Matt!

[ChrisLambert-Yngvegodi]

At least Odin was subject to fate. He was told about the end of the world and himself, he spent a lot of time looking for knowledge and still was bound by it. Unlike the God of the desert he never claimed to have created our world or even be obnipotent, just liked to fuck with us.

[EchoSx]

This was insightful. Even when I was a christian, I wrestled constantly with this. If god is omni this and that, then why pray? Does praying sway this god? When I would ask this question, the most often response I would receive was that "we can't fully understand god." left that cult.

[Bronco]

Im glad you brought up uncertainty. That is really the crux of the whole problem; the illusion of freewill comes about because of uncertainty and without it there is no freewill. And total omnipotence is impossible because asolute certainty is impossible, due to the recurrsion argument.

[skyenyx]

This is one I've mused on a lot and I'm excited to hear your thoughts, Matt.

[sethhornaday]

This was perfect depiction said so eloquently 💯

[lukeriely]

Another well structured production.
I am glad you cited Rationality Rules channel. I know you're aware of each other. His execution of logic is excellent. He's helped me make sense of much.

[x-ray]

Hi Matt, just want to say how much joy it brings me that you talk about God and Jesus as an atheist. You know more scripture chapter/verse than most people who are saved. I will keep you on my prayer list bro love you.


P.S. Loving the Moses look 😂🙌✌️

[SamWeltzin]

This is actually roughly how a Christian friend of mine justified the awful way Hell supposedly works, and why so many multitudes of souls are doomed to spend eternity in suffering despite God loving us infinitely and him being so very sad that our souls are suffering. The friend essentially painted God as a tragic figure whose nature is fixed. It's not that he doesn't have the power to fix the broken system, it's that he IS the broken system and cannot change his own nature.
It's about the only argument that is logically consistent for eternal damnation squaring with a loving, omnipotent God, but man does it paint a bleak picture of reality.

[trevormugalu]

Just so we are clear, the video doesn't end with the word popsicle.

[allenmciver]

What's funny is this reminds me of Dr. Manhattan from DC Comic. Perfect knowledge of the future was his damnation. He stopped having choices and had to watch the future just play out. He actually shut off that power in the second series because he felt like a choiceless puppet.

[JamesRichardWiley]

God does what his prophets, theologians, priests, rabbis, imams, and religious biographers tell him to do.
God cannot have free will if he is make believe.

[ThomasO]

Since I was about 17, I’ve always visualized the Christian God as being a “record”. Records are stamped with grooves and we, the temporal beings, are forced to ride the grooves. The upcoming grooves may change tracks, may include an awesome solo, or moments of silence, they can be anything in the same way that God is “all powerful”. But God Himself is constrained by His “will”. The pattern of grooves past and the pattern of grooves yet to come. In this way, God can be all knowing and all powerful yet, paradoxically, be even more constrained than the temporal beings that ride upon His grooves.

[johnbishop]

Romans 1:20
[20]For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[_SledgeHammer_]

Dang.. What happened to the popsicle!? 😂
Interesting video 👌🏻😊

[HughJaxident]

I'm glad Matt has brought this topic up as I'd intended to call in to address God's claimed omniscience. There appears to be very little assets online, theistic or secular, that discusses this area.

If omniscience is as you defined, then this god is the maximally limited, he is also ultimately responsible for everything, including all the suffering and pain that has (or will) ever exist. Now we may have will, free or otherwise and modal logic supports that we can possess such will even if the creator god is omniscient. However, a god that created us this way always knew what everyone of us would do with that will, which once again, makes him completely responsible for every evil, injustice, inequality etc that has or will ever happen. It also makes this god a monster as he punishes for actions he always knew we'd perform - punishment for its own sake. It also renders prayer obsolete as 'what will be' is what was always going to be.

Of course, there are further absurdities, however, I think this on its own is a strong argument that the god as outlined in the Bible, cannot exist.

[nlyThis]

An Infinite Being, having no Outside, can have no Other which it can choose to be - or not to be.

[Solomn]

Also remember when god changed his mind about destroying Nineveh in the book of jonah