The Best Argument for The Existence of God W/ Trent Horn

Trent gives us his best philosophical argument for the existence of God, and I play devil's advocate.

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[pintswithaquinas]

What do you think is the best and the weakest argument for Gods existence? ... and why?

[CHAZER-spcm]

I wish more people would think about theses things

[Mother_of_God_Sanctum]

Posted this on my FB page as my intro back into FB announcing my conversion. Thank you Matt and Trent for being a big part in nurturing that. Anyway, the one response I’ve received was:” Law of sufficient reason; they want to apply it to the universe, but not even a hint that they want to apply it to their god. This is essentially the same old, ‘I don’t know why, so it must be a metaphysical being arguement’.
Baby at all of this, so asking whomevers in the choir here on this thread what may be a compelling argument to that. Thanks in advance. Learning a lot. Fascinated to discover this field. And these two great teachers.

[jaydan]

everyone is saying they are making ignorant leaps in knowledge by saying "we dont know the cause so it must be God" but what theyre really saying is "the universe was caused, and because the universe is x, y, z, the cause of the universe is not x, y, z. we believe that this cause is God because God matches this description"
its not so much as just saying "oh the cause must be God because i dunno" but instead its saying "ok well the cause has these attributes, and God has these attributes, the cause is God"

[wishIwuzskiing]

Fascinating discussion! It feels like looking at a painting that was found in the middle of a forest and trying to agree, with proof, on the origin of the painting but the ONE thing that is categorically rejected (from the atheist standpoint) is that there is someone called a painter. One of the greatest minds in physics, Isaac Newton, fully embraced God as the Creator and that allowed him to have that much richer a journey of discovery because that freed him KNOWING that God made the universe and everything in it to be intelligible. It's like knowing ahead that a puzzle has a solution and the designer wants you to figure it out.

[inquiz-ahteev]

I am here so I might help one of my teens questions at 17❣️
Thank you for this discussion. I know take away what helps and leave the rest.
The answer has been written. God Bless 🙏

[AveChristusRex]

Re The infinitely sharp point example: it has to have a reason, because the force on each side must be equal otherwise, one being greater than the other, and becoming that way, itself has an explanation.

[micaiahweaver]

The ball on the cone was placed there with either too much weight on one side, or wind moved it, if it was perfectly balanced and there was no force acting on it other than gravity. Then gravity wouldn't be straight down since the earth is a little lumpy. Then if gravity was perfectly uniform, and no other forces were acting on it then it would remain balanced forever.

[gcoinhistorian]

All of the nerdy arguments about God as creator aside, I feel like I know him when I pray and don't know him when I don't. If we found a definitive and alternate explanation for the creation of the universe, I'd believe in him anyway.

[Jozek]

Contingency Argument is when I finally thought to myself - it is the explanation, an argument that pleases my mind. I learned it from RC Sproul. I love Trent's take on it.

[wishIwuzskiing]

Since most who are on the side of various Universe theories (Bubble universes, infinite universe, etc.) rely on science and math for explanations, what about the simple mathematical calculation of the odds of it existing at all? I have heard a talk about the odds of a Universe with the proper entropy, which allows it to "work" is a number of 10 to the 10th to the 128th to 1. Represented as grains of pollen, those grains of pollen would fill our universe. It's a really big number. Now, the mathematical equation for something that is impossible I have heard is 10 to the 58th (throwing a million piece puzzle off a tall building and it landing on the ground fully completed) so therefor pure math tells us that the universe existing and working as it does at all is a mathematical impossibility. Then add all the fine tuning and the impossibilities simply multiply!

[alexanderdenney]

A question I've had for a while is that if God has a plan for all of our lives, and he creates everyone with intention and purpose, why are their children born who just die shortly after being born? Doe he create them just to die? And a substituent question is, if their are children dying shortly after being born before they can understand what God even is, and the Bible says the only way to enter the kingdom of god is to be saved, do those children go to hell? Or is their an exception that I don't know about. Because the Bible says the ONLY way to enter the kingdom of god is to be saved.

[naturalisticallyinclined]

Hey Matt Fradd. If my friend and I make a video responding to this, and you find it to be a respectful, respectable, and rigorous response, would you make a response video (or something to that effect)?

[TheBrunarr]

When I saw the title and clicked on the video, I thought to myself that the argument from the PSR is probably my favorite, and what do you know that's exactly what Trent goes over.

[mattaustin]

I’m here as an ex-priest, now an atheist, curious to see whether any of the arguments I once accepted are actually convincing, after fifteen years away. So far, the ones I’ve heard all seem to lack something. But having said that, I’m interested in what is shared. And as an Aussie, it’s nice to hear an Aussie accent for a change! Cheers, Matt, ex-diocese of Wagga.

[Sancte_Benedicte]

Even if I wasn't a Catholic would still consider Gods existence undeniable based on the principle that it makes no sense that the universe just came from no where and yet billions of years later it is still in order.

[Chemike]

I think all events also have a cause, we just have no way of observing that cause in most instances. If you have an infinitely sharp point with a perfect sphere on top, it wouldn't roll off to any side. But then again playing with infinity which is not observed to exist anywhere except our minds, causes many absurd situations.

[Taima]

So why can't the universe itself be the non-contingent eternal thing? And if it can't, why does that not apply to a god?

[brettrfalcon]

I think God’s name perfectly encapsulates the non-contingent set of conditions that allow everything else to exist. “I Am” meaning His existence doesn’t depend on anything else, He simply is.

[cthoadmin]

Extrapolation beyond experience. Maybe we’re just cognitively closed to certain things. Best atheist tee shirt I ever saw: “I don’t know, but you don’t either”.