The Doctor Who Fell From The Sky | Missing 411: Jim McGrogan Revisited

On March 14th, 2014 Dr. James McGrogan and three friends started their hike to the popular Eiseman Hut just north of Vail, Colorado. Details about the events of that day, from the moment they hit the trail until the realization that Jim was missing, are incredibly scant. But nothing accounts for the impossible nature of what happened next. Welcome back to The Lore Lodge...

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0:00 - Intro and Background
1:43 - Tablow Roasting Co. x Lore Lodge Coffee
2:23 - Western Colorado History
8:24 - McGrogan's Hike
12:23 - The Search For Dr. McGrogan
20:32 - Problems with the Narrative
28:30 - Conclusions and Outro

[alikarol]

A common theme in missing 411 cases is the victim being separated from their shoes. If you're going to kidnap someone in the wild, whether in the snow, forest, or desert, the best way to stop or slow their escape is to remove their shoes.

See how far you get in the elements without your shoes. And even if you do get far, your feet are in horrible shape.

[gaylienz]

as an indigenous person I was pleasantly surprised to hear you cover the history of Colorado far back to the native peoples--most are satisfied to start the history of this land post-colonialism because it's easiest. so thanks! good video!

[chaoticsalem]

As a Colorado native it's astonishing to me that so many educated people, including yourself, have analyzed this case intricately and yet haven't even thought to consider high altitude sickness/psychosis. The dude lived in the midwest and flew to Vail which, like you said, is around 11, 000 feet in elevation. Ascending that quickly can make even the most fit person incredibly sick incredibly fast. Add on the fact that he refused to rest and seperared himself from his group, it's safe to say his strange actions are simply the result of high altitude psychosis, followed by hypothermia symptoms, finally leading him into an accident. People need to be more prepared and humble themselves abit before going into the wilderness like this. It doesn't matter if you're an olympian - you can still get hurt and die. Easily.

[Luesium]

I love how you take the time to speak about the Native peoples, their languages, and lands and you try to make sure to speak them correctly and with respect. It is wonderful of you <3

[bills]

I think too often we try to apply rational rules to people who were probably acting irrationally. Hypothermia can come on quickly and make you act irrationally. Once that happens, without a buddy to recognize the signs and help, all bets are off. Someone acting irrationally might go anywhere and do anything. They may become convinced that the wrong direction is the right direction, and they will just keep going. They won't use the cell phone or the GPS because in their mind they are not lost.

[jman]

Hello, I grew up in Colombia. Even though I'm skeptical about any supernatural claim, I have had many first account testimonies of (seemingly sane and healthy) people going lost or being found in remote places. One similar story comes from a Colombian army corporal that basically lost one of his soldiers as they slept in a fire position in an active combat zone against a FARC structure. His soldier was found several kilometers away, above ground, and tangled with some sort of jungle ivy and with no immidiate recollection of what had happened ( he had gone for just 6 hours). After securing him (he kept screaming and wanting to go back to the deepest part of the jungle). They were able to put him on a makeshift bed and treated minor lacerations. After a couple of days, when he came to his senses and described being awakened by a beautiful woman who kept luring him, further and further away. At some point, he lost consciousness and just remembered waking up to tell this same story to his army buddies. Mind you, throughout several days before this soldier came back to his normal self, the men could hear him screaming and calling for this woman. Many of those keep guard, kept going missing for a couple of hours, until found on the trees or in the thickest foliage, suffering from the same synthoms. I got so bad that a Blackhawk had to pick the whole company, all 4 platoons, and drop them onto another quadrant.

[Thomas-nr]

Backcountry skiing is no joke. You take your life in your hands any time you head to the wilderness. You can be a lifetime skier but any time you go "off piste" its just you out there. Its like swimming in a kiddie pool vs swimming in the ocean.

[GenericJeebus]

Stories like this make me think of a quote from Les Stroud on an old episode of Surivorman where he said something to the effect "The panic of being lost can lead people to become so desparate to get out that they can even refuse to believe their compasses." that always stuck with me.

[kristinsevin]

If any foul play was suspected, on or off record, it is common for the police or whomever is working the case to withold information. Its a way to recognize any possible false witnesses, or people who know more than they say. So, if his friends were suspected to be responsible at any point, its actually very reasonable that authorities dont divulge certain information.

[HeyLeFay]

Something to note about the lack of shoes: one time, when I was skiing as a kid I wiped out and fell directly into a snowbank. Thankfully I only ended up about waist deep in the snow. But because of that, I ended up having to pull my feet out of my boots to escape. The long, thin skis were impossible to pull up out from underneath the snow with just the strength of my legs alone. In my mind, it was a lot easier to dig down to the top of my boots, unlace them, pull my feet out, and then climb around and dig my skis out from the side of the snowbank that I entered from.
Of course, once my family finally caught up with me, I got yelled at told I should've dug down far enough to unlatch my boots so my socks didn't get all wet, but it had seemed like a good idea at the time.
All that is to say that I could definitely see a scenario where someone might have to remove their heavy boots and skis on the mountain.

[krispin]

The existence of the moose is the ONE thing that terrifies me more than running into the wendigo.

[lazywargaming]

One thing it could be is that, some intelligent people have issues recognizing when they're wrong. So could have known he was going the wrong way but refused to double back and kept instead pressing forward

[SpaceCaptnFace]

ive worked with park and summit county search and rescue. even residents in the area experience HAPE and HACE symptoms, aside from hypothermia, which Dr. Mcgrogan seems to have experienced. Even mild hypothermia causes capillaries to swell, making the sun feel a thousand degrees. same reason why many everest victims shed their clothes in storms.

[JG-blqs]

There’s so many stories of ppl who hv been found alive that stated they either don’t remember what happened to them when they decided to separate from others, or had no control over their actions / not realizing what they are doing (like leaving their house to go on hikes they’ve never been experienced with and being completely not prepared)

[angeldroid]

Got invested into the initial history backgound and forgot that wasnt even the main topic. Need more history based videos

[Bruugle]

I‘m surprised I never heard anything about this case as I go hunting every year in a spot 10 or so miles northeast of where this incident happened. Now, there is one major factor missing from this explanation that I think is really important here which I know from my own experience of the area. It is what I have named “the dark timbers”.

These “dark timbers” are the huge patches of incredible dense pine trees. I call them this because If you go only a few meters into these patches and your visibility immediately drops to a around dozen yards, entire forest become dark as the tal pines block the sun, and the temperature drops considerably. It is very easy to get disoriented after walking only a little ways into the dark timber. Everything in all directions looks like a uniform mess of green pine and branches, almost all sound becomes muffled so that it is dead silent, it is so dense that you are constantly pushing on branches, and the ground is covered in fallen trees making movement incredibly slow and laborious as you have to climb over constant obstacles which spins you around only adding to your disorientation. Some of these fallen trees i have seen stack up and make shear walls 5-6 feet tall. This is where elk and moose make their hiding places, often then can pass within feet of you and you would never even see them, just hear them crashing through and maybe smell them. There have been times where me and my hunting partners have circled around right next to each other without even seeing each-other in there and these patches of dark timber can be small but others can stretch for many miles.

Sometimes we have ventured into the dark timber hoping for the prospect of bumping into some game, but it has always been a mistake. Whenever we go in we go in expecting not to be able to retrace our path or find the trail we took to get there. Once in the only way out is usually to press in some direction you know will become open. Sometimes we have gone in and been stuck meandering through it, taking hours to move distances only a mile. Aloso, I recall emerging from the dark timber at places completely unexpected like in the backs of ranches we should not be at or at roads we thought were too far away to reach.

If he went into the dark timber, even just a tiny bit to say climb some hill for a picture or to go the bathroom, i could understand if he got disoriented and lost. In the cold and if not acclimated to the altitude it is even easier to get confused. Not to mention a wrong turn on a trail in this area can take you many miles away from where you want to be. If he did take a wrong turn, and decided to cut through dark timber to get back on trail that could also explain his actions.

Being lost in the dark timber could explain a few things. The helicopter and searchers would have no hope finding him in there. The forest is just too dense. Also, even if Vail could have been in sight for him, in the Dark timber you would not be able to see it, or even to hear the noise from the interstate.

Maybe he stepped into the dark timber, got confused and disoriented, from hypothermia, altitude, or generally lost, and wondered around until it was too dark to see the cliff he walked right off of. As for the gps he had, maybe he did not understand how to use it?

Anyway that is my take. I don’t ever bother entering that dark timber anymore myself. Hunting there is too fruitless and cumbersome, not to mention dangerous. However, i still so have occasional nightmares about walking around in that dark timber as the sun is setting, not able to get out fast enough as the pitch black darkness slowly envelopes the forest, overwhelmed by the panic of being lost, i jolt awake, safe in my bed.

[Proto]

By the way Aiden, the picture you showed is the new high school. The high school he went to is the middle school (that I went to), which is now rumored to be turning into a YMCA. It's amazing how small the world really is! Chesterton is a good town.

[Verbatim]

My personal theory is that someone in a chopper found him and they went to air lift him and accidentally dropped him so they just went “Uuuhhhh yes we definitely found him down there. Where did we find his boots and snowboard? Uuuhhh, pshhh you know, just around” and they sorta just went with it

[Riddler]

The aliens always make people take their shoes off and hang their coats before walking on the carpets!!!😊

[ryanpoe]

The significance of the fact that he ended up over by Booth Falls is really underplayed, both in this video and in most other summaries I have seen of this case. It helps an enormous amount to have a map open of the whole area. It's not JUST that Booth Falls is a long way away from Eisman Hut and the trail leading up to it, but that Booth Falls is on the complete opposite side of a 12, 000 foot high ridgeline! AND that Booth Creek, being on the other side of the ridge, serves an entirely different drainage than Middle Creek (which Spraddle Creek Trailhead runs up). There seems to be some speculation that he might have gotten off onto Red Sandstone/Middle Creek Trail; however, this route to Eisman Hut is on the other side of a lower ridge and achieves Eiseman by going up and over the ridge and descending to it from the backside as opposed to climbing to it from below as with Spraddle Creek Trail; in other words, Red Sandstone/Middle Creek Trail is a physically separate trail with a completely different point of origin, not a trail that intersects with or intertwines with or departs from Spraddle Creek Trail. Anyway, back to Booth Creek - it helps to have some familiarity with the mountains to fully grasp this, but similar to how one does not simply walk into Mordor, one does not simply go up and over a 12, 000 foot ridge without knowing it and without doing it being very significant for wayfinding. Eisman Hut is below the ridge. McGrogan, having a decent amount of mountain and backcountry experience and having prepared for this trip for a year would have known this very well, and would not have gone up and over the ridge and passed into the other drainage thinking it was the way to Eisman, because he knew full well he never needed to *make* a ridgetop to get to Eisman, much less pass down a drainage on the backside of a pass. Him being found near in Booth Falls, on the other side of a 12, 000' ridgeline, also makes the case very unlikely for him to have seen a fun looking ski route from the trail and to have departed from the trail to hike up to it and ski back down. The reason is that he could not have SEEN any ski terrain on he backside of the high ridgeline between his location in the Middle Creek drainage and his place of final resting in the Booth Creek drainage. They are on opposite sides of the mountain. IF he had departed to ski anything he saw, that would have been in the draw surrounding him at the time - the Middle Creek drainage basin, and having hiked up or skied down within that drainage, it would have made no sense for him to think that he needed to go all the way up and over the 12, 000' ridge to get to Eisman Hut. He may have become disoriented and not know EXACTLY where Eisman hut was from his location at all times, but in no scenario would someone with even a modicum of mountaineering experience think that the location of the Hut lay on the opposite side of the ridge (a high, clear tundra ridge by the way - from which one can see all around for miles and easily take one's general bearings).