Starlink’s newest competitor is using next-gen satellites to create internet for all | Hard Reset

Four billion people are not connected to the internet. This company wants to change that, using satellites in geostationary orbits.

An estimated four billion people aren’t reliably connected to the internet. Those who do have wifi access can face exorbitant bills, especially in remote areas like Alaska, where wifi can cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Could putting the internet in space be the answer? Astranis is putting small satellites at Geostationary Earth Orbit (GEO), about 100 times further away than companies like Starlink, enabling each satellite to cover a much larger area.

This tech could provide a more reliable, affordable connection for billions of people across the globe.

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[stPrinciplesFM]

Hey, that's me! ✌🏻 Glad you all enjoyed the tour. Stop in again early next year, we're launching four satellites on a dedicated Falcon 9 soon!

[eafortson]

Satellite Network Engineer here. It was really strange to frame LEO as being some cumbersome design and GEO as being a "new outside the box" solution to this problem. GEO has been around for decades. It's the OG solution. But the problem is latency and it's caused by the extra distance. The average latency for a GEO stationary Sat is about 700-800ms compared to LEO which is like 32ms. That is a VAST difference (which admittedly is addressed later in the video). The Phase array tracking system in Starlink antennas is literally bleeding edge tech. 3:16 this sequence was  very misleading, considering that the starlink antenna (dishy) is phased array not mechanical tracking. So the antenna isn't literally "moving around" to track the satellites as they pass in LEO. And that being the case it doesn't "jump" to track the next sat (or at least very very very rarely if there is an issue). It switches faster than you could perceivably notice and long before a packet hits its timeout counter or is dropped. So the internet wouldn't "go down" as described.

These guys aren't really doing anything revolutionary here tbh. They are just iterating and aiming for a cheaper solution that serves a very specific niche at the very bottom end of the market.

[jmreagle]

The latency to satellites in geostationary orbit is significant, that's why starlink went for low earth

[palpytine]

The animations here are misleading. The antennas that Starlink uses are phased arrays and can track satellites without needing any physical movement whatsoever, which also means that they can re-track to a different satellite *extremely* fast. All this so the satellites can be physically closer.

Yes, GEO orbit is 6x further away, which eliminates that need and gives it a much bigger footprint, which is why it's the approach that was traditionally used in satellite internet (and TV). The problem with this approach is that signals have to travel a much longer distance, meaning they take longer to arrive, in both directions. You can still send impressive amounts of data, but the delay shows up in how long it takes to start receiving a response to e.g clicking a URL. This latency is unusable for gaming, and causes enough of a delay that it becomes hard to use for realtime phone calls or video conferencing.

That's exactly why Starlink very explicitly opted for LEO. Closer satellites = Lower latency. As a bonus, the workload is shared over more satellites which means they'll be able to service more users with higher total bandwidth. The catch is that It means higher costs and demands far more sophisticated engineering.

[GregBurghart]

Satellite communications engineer here with 3 decades experience designing and building large data networks using geostationary C & Ku band satellites. This is one of the most disappointing and least informative videos I've seen on the subject. As many other commenters have correctly pointed out, the video completely leaves out the issue of GEO satellite latency, viewing angle from extreme latitudes and total network available bandwith, as compared to LEO satellites.

The Starlink terminal phased array antennas (not parabolic reflectors, as incorrectly shown in the video) represent an engineering achievement that I would never have imagined possible or economically feasible just a few years ago. I'm amazed that they have found a way to scale production to make such complexity available at such a low cost. Truly remarkable engineering by SpaceX!

[ashtonb]

Living in Alaska and using geostationary satellite Internet for over 16 years, this show completely failed to mention that in the northern latitudes, geostationary orbiting satellites are extremely low on the horizon and so are easily blocked by obstacles.... Such as trees, other houses....and mountains.

[mrwjs]

I don't think the Starlink antennas have to disconnect when switching satellites; the benefits of a phased-array antenna. Multiple, simultaneous connections. The antenna doesn't even move once positioned correctly. The arrays do the “moving”. Whenever I hear something in an 'educational' video like this that sounds speculative or uninformed, I stop watching. The video starts to sound like a promotion for the product.

[tomjaeger]

The starlink dish does not move as it tracks sats. It uses a phased array to steer the beam and tracks multiple sats at the same time so there is no loss of signal as it moves to a new sat. The starlink dish only moves on startup. The new starlink dishs dont move at all as they do not have motors. Starlink being closer via LEO puts the latency between 30ms and 100ms vs geo stationary sats at 500+ ms. That is 1/2 second delay....try a phone call with a 1/2 second delay.

[Me__Myself__and__I]

"Imagine..." the whole end of this video is silly. Imagine no one has already done this before... Imagine you're spending millions to offer a lower bandwidth, much higher latency service that isn't usable for many use cases. Imagine there is already a competitor that offers vastly superior service worldwide. Imagine the investors in this company losing all their money...

[azpcox]

3:15 um, Starlink terminals don’t do that. Phased array antennas move them instantly and electronically to the next satellite WITHOUT impact to a stream. You won’t even notice it.

[gokkiyoutube]

Starlink doesn't lose connection each time it switches and doesn't have to track the satellites mechanically - it uses beam forming to instantly switch between them. Might wanna research a bit more before making false statements.

[lorenzos-go]

I think what's missing from the video is that nearly all existing satellite internet offerings are actually in geostationary.
It seems like the main innovation here is reduced satellite cost and newer tech compared to existing costellations like ViaSat?

[chrisstearns]

I have Starlink works great, even for gaming while streaming to 4 other tvs and video conferenceing. The reason Starlink is in low earth orbit is because of the latency speed. Can't game on satellites in geostationary orbit.

[jimdangle]

I can't believe this is being pitched as an alternative...

[IanHobday]

Brutal latency. 500ms ping times in an absolute best case scenario but it will be worse than that. 600ms to 800ms will be typical. Maybe okay for streaming but not workable for anything interactive (gaming, voice calls, video calls, etc). Starlink is killer because of the low latency.

[abchas]

This is a very high risk endeavor. The competitors have been doing this for a long time already and barely break even. Starlink will take all of the profitable subscribers. It's noble to provide internet to the next 4B people but they cant afford to pay for it. This business model only makes sense as a charity. How may of your satellites would you need to launch to service 4B people at connection speeds better than dial up?

[matthewk]

There really isn’t anything novel about providing Internet from Geo. The latency that’s introduced by having a signal travel more than 70, 000 miles in order to get from point “A” point “B” renders many internet applications unusable. High speed, Internet from Geo stationary orbit has been available since the mid 2000s. Honestly this sounds more like a commercial than an actual investigation or thought through reporting.

[nickik]

There is misinformation here. First of all, while Starlink terminals track the sats, they don't do it physically like shown in the video. It is done with electromagnetic beam forming and happens incredibly quickly, the antenna stays in the same place the whole time. The motor is mostly there for initial adjustment and alignment. There is basically no noticeable falloff in latency.

Geostationary internet has existed for decades. The video doesn't make that clear. So there is nothing new about that, and that sort of internet is what SpaceX Starlink is currently replacing. To suggest this is some new idea that is primed to compete with Starlink doesn't really make sense. For most application the latency is terrible. They are basically just hopping they can do it cheaper.

Why this should be cheaper then what SpaceX is doing is a mystery to me. The video didn't really tell me the value proposition.

[amateurwizard]

I think this is banking on most people being ignorant to many things. It's far more functional to use large high power satellites in this scenario. The latency will always be absolutely huge, and this also has an effect on bandwidth because devices don't just rant to the internet with no response (often).

[jondurr]

I had geostationary satellite internet until cable became available. It had terrible latency! Latency isn't only important to gaming; it slows your connection overall!