Roman Religion Before the Greeks - Ancient History DOCUMENTARY

Kings and Generals' historical animated documentary series on the history of Rome and ancient civilizations continues with an episode on the Roman religion before the Greeks, as we talk about the religious traditions of Rome before the Hellenic influence took over.

Script: David Muncan
Animation: Lucas Salatiel
Illustration: Lucas Salatiel

#Religon #Documentary #RomanHistory

[holyfreak]

Many tend to simplify saying that romans "copied" greek religion, but that is not that at all. We can find the same religious archetypes ( a god of thunder, a god of war etc). in almost every indo-european belief system.

[paulrhome]

When the Romans incorporated Greek mythology, one of the most noticable changes they made was to remove most of the father-killing. A staple of Greek mythology, was too disruptive for Rome. Older gods tended to retire or fade into obscurity, not killed by the next generation.

[holyfreak]

Is also intetesting how romans sacralized certain aspects of the state and politics. The goddess Concordia and her temple were created after the end of the conflicts between patricians and plebeians.

[penguin]

These religion episodes are really interesting. Hope you do more like these and cover Manichaeism and other ancient cults!

[ModernEphemera]

Fun fact, while “Romanus pontifex” and “summus pontifex” are the official titles of the pope of the Roman Catholic Church, “pontifex maximus” has also been used by many popes, especially amidst the enthusiasm for classical history and culture during the Renaissance.

[miketacos]

Jupiter: “Cut off a head.”
Numa: “An onion.”
Jupiter: “Of a man.”
Numa: “A man’s hair.”
Jupiter: “A life.”
Numa: “Of a fish.”
Jupiter: “Listen here, you little shit—“

[scraggybeard]

I would really like to recommend Rüpke's Pantheon: A New History of Roman Religion with regards to a fascinating perspective on Rome's religious development.

[merrymachiavelli]

One thing not touched on here is that the Greek and Roman pantheons would have likely been somewhat similar even without any direct contact, due to common Proto-Indo-European origin. Jupiter and Zeus, for example, both originate etymologically from PIE Deus-Pater, a Sky-Father god, and there are a number of other similarities suggested by comparative linguistics as well.

Of course, there would've been a lot of differences by the 400sBC, due to both to cultural drift and non-PIE influences (such as the Etruscans from the Romans, and Anatolians or Pre-Greek peoples on the Greeks), but my personal belief has always been that a main reason the syncretism happened so smoothly and comprehensively was due underlying inherited religious similarities.

[TheUrobolos]

Fortuna, a primordial native italic goddess, was so loved by romans and italians as a whole that remained popular as a quasi-angelic figure even in christian times. Severinus Boezius in his magnum opus dialogue "Consolation Philosophiae" had her in a prominent role, and the concept of fortune as a picky woman draggin unfortunate mortals across her wheel remained a popular image across the medieval art

[NihaoPT]

Can't wait for the remaining episodes! And it would be great to see more series on different world religions!

[TetsuShima]

*Fun fact:* There was a time in Rome in which the cult of the goddess Isis, one of the most popular pre-Greeks cults that existed, was banned during the reign of Tiberius. This prohibition was due to a really curious anecdote: There was a beautiful noblewoman who worshiped Isis. An equestrian man was so attracted to her that he offered her 2, 500 gold coins for just spending one night together, which only caused her a deep indignation. After being rejected, the equestrian man went to the temple of Isis and bribed the priests to tell the noblewoman that Anubis was going to appear that night in the temple and had directly chosen her as his companion. The woman believed everything she was told and, when she went to the temple at nightfall, she met the equestrian man (who had disguised himself as Anubis) and f*cked with him throughout the night. After spending several days bragging about having slept with a God, the noblewoman was visited by the equestrian man, who told her: "What we did the other night was really magnificent. I wish you hadn't called me Anubis all the time, but at least I didn't pay you anything at the end 😉". Realizing in horror what she had done, the noblewoman and her husband went to Tiberius' palace in order to protest. The emperor then punished the priests by destroying their temple and forbidding the worship of Isis. Despite this prohibition, many people continued to worship her in secrecy, including the future emperor Caligula, although he later renounced his faith to her and declared himself a God after Isis did not save his sister and lover Drusilla from death, despite promising he would build a gigantic temple for the goddess

[philtkaswahl]

This was the most hilariously fitting sponsorship segment yet. I legit laughed out loud.

[mercianthane]

Something to note about Mars, is that he seems to be more like a Thorr in archaic roman religion. I barely remember the scholar who pointed out that he used to be connected with lightning and thunder, while Juppiter was the personification of the heavens. That is why Mars is so prevalent in the tale of Romulus and Remus.

[keirangrant]

Love your videos man. You go in-depth and explain history in a way that makes it easy to retain. Thank you for your dedication

[Evagelopoulos]

Numa Pompilius reigned 715–672 BC) was the legendary second king of Rome, succeeding Romulus. Numa was descended of the Sabines, who declare themselves to be a colony of the Lacedaemonians (Plutarch).
Many of Rome's most important religious and political institutions are attributed to him, as this excellent video refers.

[sfbuck]

For folks whose curiosity often takes them off the beaten trail, there's Kings and Generals. And it's always very well presented. If they taught history like this when I was in high school I might have taken more interest in it.

[danielkover]

Do you have anything regarding ancient Celtic religions? I know the source materials are extremely scarce and frequently biased, but I'd be interested in learning more. Honestly, for me, the harder it is to learn about a people (generally the further back in time one goes), the more intrigued I am about them. Love your channel! <3

[kuroazrem]

This is really interesting! This is a topic that I had no idea was even a thing, particularly given the fact that Roman Religion is often thought off merely as a cheap copy of the Greek one. Now I know this is much more complex. As always, great job.

[JohnDoe-ptos]

By far, I think one of the greatest or at least most unique book upon Roman Religion relative to Roman government and society has to be Mr. Fustel de Coulanges' The Ancient City (1864). Though it must be somewhat outdated in scholarship, the book remains one of the most fascinating through its discussion of roman religion away from the stereotypical pantheon and rather focuses upon domestic religion namely relating to the Lares, Manes, and Penates (as well as their connection to the hearth or vesta) in both Rome and Greece.

The central importance of the ideas originating from the ancient religion (before the ideas of Elysian Fields, pantheons, and the such) can be demonstrated by a few quotes from the book:

"A verse of Pindar has preserved to us a curious vestige of the thoughts of those ancient generations. Phrixus had been compelled to quit Greece. and had fled as far as Colchis. He had died in that country; but, dead though he was, he wished to return to Greece. He appeared, therefore, to Pelias, and directed him to go to Colchis and bring away his soul. Doubtless this soul regretted the soil of its native country, and the tomb of its family; but being attached to its corporeal remains, it could not quit Colchis without them."

"Men feared death less than the privation of burial; for rest and eternal happiness were at stake. We ought not to be too much surprised at seeing the Athenians put generals to death, who, after a naval victory, had neglected to bury the dead. These generals, disciples of philosophers, distinguished clearly between the soul and the body, and as they did not believe that the fate of the one was connected with the fate of the other, it appeared to them of very little consequence whether a body was decomposed in the earth or in the water. Therefore they did not brave the tempest for the vain formality of collecting and burying their dead. But the multitude, who, even at Athens, still clung to the ancient doctrines, accused these generals of impiety, and had them put to death. By their victory they had saved Athens; but by their impiety they had lost thousands of souls."

"The Romans gave to the dead the name of Manes. “Render to the manes what is
due them, ” says Cicero; “they are men who have quitted this life; consider them as divine beings.” These human souls deified by death were what the Greeks called demons, or heroes. The Latins gave them the name of Lares, Manes, Genii. “Our ancestors believed, ” says Apuleius “that the Manes, when they were malignant, were to be called larvae; they called them Lares when they were benevolent and propitious.” Elsewhere we read, “Genius and Lar is the same being; so our ancestors believed.” And in Cicero, “Those that the Greeks called demons we call Lares.”

"It often happened that colonists or conquerors established themselves in a city already built. They had not to build houses, for nothing opposed their occupying those of the vanquished; but they had to perform the ceremony of foundation — that is, to establish their sacred fires, and to fix their national gods in their new home. This explains the statements of Thucydides and Herodotus that the Dorians founded Lacedaemon, and the Ionians Miletus, though these two tribes found Lacedaemon and Miletus built and already very ancient."

"At one time the tribunes of the people proposed, as Rome, devastated by the Gauls, was no longer anything but a heap of ruins, and as, five leagues distant, there was a city all built, large, beautiful, well situated, and without inhabitants, — since the Romans had conquered it, — that the people should abandon the ruins of Rome, and remove to Veii. But the pious Camillus replied, “Our city was religiously founded; the gods themselves pointed out the place, and took up their abode here with our fathers. Ruined as it is, it still remains the dwelling of our national gods.” And the Romans remained at Rome."

"Besides these gods and heroes, men had gods of another species, like Jupiter, Juno,
and Minerva, towards whom the aspect of nature had directed their thoughts; but we have seen that these creations of human intelligence had for a long time the character of domestic or local divinities. At first men did not conceive of these gods as watching over the whole human race. They believed that each one of them belonged in particular to a family or a city. The names of many of these divinities are forgotten; it is by chance that there have remained the names of the god Satrapes, who belonged to the city of Elis, of the goddess Dindymene at Thebes, of Soteira at Ægium, of Britomartis in Crete, of Hyblaea at Hybla. The names of Zeus, Athene, Hera, Jupiter, Minerva, and Neptune are better known to us, and we know that they were often applied to these city-guarding divinities; but because two cities happened to apply the same name to their god, we are not to conclude that they adored the same god. There was an Athene at Athens, and there was one at Sparta; but they were two goddesses. A great number of cities had a Jupiter as a city-protecting divinity. There were as many Jupiters as there were cities. In the legend of the Trojan war we see a Pallas who fights for the Greeks, and there is among the Trojans another Pallas, who receives their worship and protects her worshippers. Would any one say that it was the same divinity who figured in both armies? Certainly not; for the ancients did not attribute the gift of ubiquity to their gods. The cities of Argos and Samos had each a Here Polias, but it was not the same goddess, for she was represented in the two cities with very different attributes. There was at Rome a Juno; at a distance of five leagues, the city of Veii had another. So little were they the same divinity that we see the dictator Camillus, while besieging Veii, address himself to the Juno of the enemy, to induce her to abandon the Etruscan city and pass into his camp. "

[sergpie]

My grandfather said once, in Italian; “Pare che Giove Pluvio abbia deciso di scatenare le sue intemperie.”, when we got stuck on the road in the middle of a rainstorm from hell. I’ll always remember that saying. It means, in English; “It seems as though Pluvial Jupiter has decided to unleash his intemperances.”.