Jordan Peterson - Creative People in Hierarchies of Authority

Peterson lends his thoughts on why creative people are stuck at the bottom of hierarchies and provides tips to finding the ladder which leads to the top.

[spyralspyder]

Creative people hate hierarchies anyway.

[chokysenge]

“We have art so that we shall not die of reality” F. Nietzsche

[SCmaro]

It's especially challenging when you're highly creative and an introvert as people seldom take notice of the creativity you manifest in reality which is often just the tip of the ice burg compared to what's locked up in a creative introvert's mind.

[Nyconbr]

I work in the military as a soldier and I hate everything about it. The system, the authoritarian kind of people and how dumb they all are. when I come with a solution no one listens to me and when they do they treat with contempt. Sometimes they even stole my idea and say they did it.
For sure I want to get the hell out of it and work in a more honest and less egoistic career that no one needs to let you down just to "feel superior than you".

[poonamkumar]

I am creative (IQ 149) and this happened to me. Stuck at the bottom of corporate hierarchies for decades, then bought a cafe four years ago and made it so successful that my bank thought I was money laundering!

[brianskog]

Creativity is evaluated by the impact of what it creates. The inability to perceive the potential value of new things demonstrates a lack of intelligence. So, if hierarchies of authority are unable to evaluate creativity, then they are, at best, only promoting for a narrow kind of intelligence.

[sandyharrison]

Wish I heard you say this 30 years ago. It’s been a struggle, but realized what you are saying within the past few years and almost at the place to just exist comfortably doing the necessary job while practicing creativity on the side. Thank you for enforcing what I’ve come to see as the only way. I’ve tried changing myself to fit, but just couldn’t put that square peg in the round hole of society. I’ll try this way for the second part of life. 😊

[ThePeacemaker]

Very true. I'm creative and I don't give a flying hoot about hierarchies.
I do see where hierarchies have merit, and it's typically where people are promoted based on merit such as in the military.
Another thing I noticed is that our entire society it designed to brainwash people to be kept at the bottom. As a young man growing up I wanted to pursue my ideas but literally everyone around me kept giving the brainwashed advice about working hard, paying dues, climbing the ladder. Meanwhile I'm like "why shouldn't I just start my own business at 18 and climb my own ladder?". And the internet was in it's infancy so there wasn't much good information which meant trying to find the info at the Library - which is basically a dart game for learning.

[mingonmongo]

“There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the innovator has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.”
–Niccolò Machiavelli

[truefilm]

Well from my own experience as a creative person (musician, today that means the full range: performing, composing, arranging, producing and sound engineering) I know that a lot of like minded (and some brilliant) people have been kept at the bottom on purpose. This happens a lot in film and music. The creative people get no chance to make a name, which is used as an excuse and a Catch 22 (among other things) to keep them down in the "cave" and do all the work that needs lots of creative decisions - including switching from detail to context, from math to emotion, from analysis to synthesis AND overcoming (by knowing them and the tricks to overcome them) all biases and flaws in human perception. This is VERY exhausting and draining work.
Needless to say: the guys and gals who run the show take all the credit (I won't even go into envy and forcing bad taste onto the creative workers, who have to come up with clever ideas to take out the ''cheese' as much as possible, to prevent it from backfiring). Not to say that film and music history should be re-written - but it might not be too far off. Also: Western society seems to despise the arts and write it off as foolish, useless stuff unless it has some kind of institution, "seriousness" or academia attached to it (classical music - I use the term as "non popular" here, not the time period, the other meaning of the word). I left my native Germany over 30 years ago because it is a country that doesn't nourish or even appreciate the arts (at the present time) and people get quality and success mixed up. Just wanted to throw that in. Thanks for reading.
P.S. getting a "day job" and being creative on the side is virtually the same as being not creative at all IMHO. You won't have the time and energy to even get anywhere near good at creative work (which is not just crazy ideas, it has to do a lot with dealing with both the tangible and the intangible at the same time).

[margaritavid]

Creative people didn't get any help for a long time. They were brainwashed that they should be crazy and starving. Psychologists also couldn't help as they would categorise creatives as out of order people without understanding that it is normal for artists to have flamboyant fantasies or be sensitive or impulsive. Fortunately there are a lot of mindset change going on lately. Artists learn business. Coaches begin to specialise on artists and jump-start their careers. Artists need more empowerment and yes, they need to think about finances for their creative life. JP is so right about business. 9to 5 job will only exhaust a creative person. But creatively run business can function without the owner being there all the time

[chrisklugh]

Remember when Art school used to be judged solely on how well you can imitate what has already be socially judged as what Art is?

[MrSilvernd]

Hence the term $tarving Artist.
It was this realization at a very young age that led me into a field of design... From there I expanded by competence and a degree of luck into management however I will say that there was an emptiness I felt throughout the process because my creativity was caged throughout 70% of my day to day activities. I do not regret it because this realization and choice led me to having a family and children that I can provide for. The creative lion within however is still rattling the cage.

[demiserofd]

I think I'm very high in creativity; I find it utterly boring to do things the traditional way, but I ran into exactly the problem he mentioned, where I entered a new hierarchy, found its flaws, pointed them out, and was completely disregarded because I hadn't built up any status in the hierarchy.

So I gritted my teeth, worked hard, and built up some respect. Not much, just enough that I couldn't be disregarded offhand, and now my ideas, once radical, are considered common practice. Unfortunately, that's now left that domain uninteresting to me so I've left it behind, which is something that a lot of people fail to consider. The problems of creativity don't stop once you reach a point of respect, they just start all over again.

Which is why it's nice to have a relatively stable career to back me up as I run headlong into an infinite chain of problems. JP is 100% right in that respect.

[ryanhinderliter]

I love when argumentative people look for contradictions but end up just misinterpreting the statement👏👏

[almasaurus]

The very condition of true artist drives them to live beyond hierarchy weather they want it or not. Artists have just different sets of values by nature, sure they pay rent and fart like all the rest but you won't allure an artist with status as easy as a bank worker, cos most of people don't have a remote idea what is "badass" in artist's eyes (and it's definitely NOT what you think at the moment it is, so it's tricky to lure them in collaborations). So there's a lot to learn from that imho.

[TheKlink]

that's an interesting use of the word "technology" a the end there...

[timsmoderngear]

I can only speak from the perspective of a designer who has worked in the industry for 11 years now. Never EVER underestimate your stakeholder management. It's THE most important skill alongside anything you need to get your actual job done.

[leothecuisinart]

creative=changing things up/doing things different, which scares normies. people skills and being extroverted are essential because people will only listen to you if they find you relatable. most artists starve because they focus on their craft instead of salesmanship and pandering to idiots.

[Mike__G]

I think part of the problem in monetizing creativity is that creativity and business sense, or the ability to promote and sell, rarely occur together in the same person.