Is the Future Degrowth? A Conversation with Andrea Vetter and Aaron Vansintjan

More and more we are seeing criticisms of a growth-oriented world and an economy that focuses solely on economic growth at the expense of other social goods, such as ecological biodiversity, biosocial, physical and mental well-being and a prosperous future. In recognition of the severe climate, ecological and social crises, there are calls to reinvent the wheel and move towards a world beyond capitalism and growth. Prominent within them is the degrowth movement, which calls for a move away from GDP-oriented economic growth and towards a more holistic paradigm that balances economic well-being with ecological and social justice.

To understand more about how degrowth can change the world in fundamental ways, Douglas talks to two of the three co-authors of the book, "The Future is Degrowth: A Guide to a World Beyond Capitalism". Joining him are Andrea Vetter and Aaron Vansintjan who have extensive experience in researching degrowth and its practical applications. In this engaging and informative discussion, they shared their personal stories and motivations, the pluralistic vision of degrowth, how degrowth criticizes mainstream environmentalism and developmental ideas, what lessons can we take away from the COVID-19 pandemic, why feminists should align with degrowth, how technology is not neutral, reforming a growth-addicted finance economy, what motivates climate scientists and young activists to protest in dramatic ways and how we can attempt to live according to degrowth principles.

Bio:
Andrea Vetter is a transformation researcher, cultural anthropologist, activist and journalist, using degrowth, commons and critical eco-feminism as tools.

Aaron Vansintjan is a post doctural researcher at the University of Vermont with research interests in comparative urbanism, political ecology, food studies, ecological economics, degrowth policy, science fiction and environmental thought.

00:00 Introduction and Discussions of Degrowth in Singapore
04:47 When Andrea Felt the World Was Not Right the First Time? Recognizing the Beauty of the World and Love for All Beings
08:18 Andrea on Inspiring a Different Way of Living Together and Activism
10:16 When Aaron Felt the World Was Not Right the First Time? Growing Up in a Diversified Political Environment and Experiencing Flawed Developmental Ideas
13:30 How to React to Those Who Oppose Social Change? Current Effects of Climate Crisis and Choosing How to Respond
17:19 Why We Can't Keep Things the Same
19:06 How the 3 Authors Got Together to Write the Book
23:07 Defining Degrowth and How It Differs from Green Modernism
27:45 The Earth Overshoot Argument, the Imperial Mode of Living and Whether Degrowth is Applicable to Other Rich Nations
30:46 Degrowth's European Roots and Pluralistic Vision
32:02 Degrowth's Criticism of Post-Developmental Ideas and Relation to Anti-Neoliberal Globalization
34:23 Doughnut Economics, Which Countries Are Within Planetary Boundaries and Finding Our Own Way
37:44 Will Degrowth Lead to Less Globalization? On Developing Local Economies, New Connections and Self Determination
44:04 What Lessons Can the Pandemic Teach Us in Relation to Degrowth? The Value of Essential Jobs and Care Work
47:19 How "There was no Lockdown; Just Middle-Class People Hiding in Their Homes and Other People Delivering Them Food"
49:30 The Great Resignation, Reframing the Pandemic as a Care Crisis and the Possibility to have a Robust Welfare System
53:36 How People Found Relief During the Pandemic
54:41 Why Feminists Should Favor Degrowth: Who Runs the World and What Economy Do We Want
59:26 Why Technology Is Not Neutral and Must be Viewed Through a Political Lens, e.g. the Car
1:05:07 The Global-South Critique and How to Improve the Well-being of the Global South by Changing the Unequal Relationship
1:10:18 What Works Better in Persuading People About Degrowth, Intellectual Arguments or Personal Narratives?
1:14:58 What Popular Forms of Storytelling Do We Need to Change the World? Room for More Imaginative Sci-Fi Stories
1:18:51 How Will the Finance Economy Look Like in a Degrowth Paradigm? Getting Away from Privatized Wealth and Towards Public Wealth and Abundance
1:25:00 Listening to the Voice of Climate Scientists and Young Activists Protesting
1:30:05 Can We Live According to Degrowth Principles Now? On Developing a Nowtopia and the Importance of Other Radical Strategies
1:37:58 Work Together and Don't Worry About Calling it Degrowth!

[biancavonmuhlendorf]

In any left "utopia" everyone is poor except the government. The highest IQs in the world (in Singapore) have not been achieved by any form of "degrowth" ( obviously ). The problem is that a few CEOs decide about the transfer of wealth in the world- never anyone from the regular population. This has to be realised before thinking about anything.

[Cyberphunkisms]

56:00 feminism is neoliberal by transforming all human social relationships into capitalist cost benefit analysis of emotional labor and privilege