Why I Gave Up on Apostolic Succession - David Bercot

Bercot’s series on the early church and believer’s baptism:

The views expressed by our guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Anabaptist Perspectives or Wellspring Mennonite Church.

[randycarson]

In 2 Timothy 2:2, Paul instructs Timothy to entrust what he has learned from Paul to trustworthy men who will, in turn, be able to teach others. One of the key teachings from Paul to Timothy is this very process of entrusting reliable individuals with Paul’s message.

If this sounds like an infinite loop, it is intentionally so; the principle of apostolic succession was designed to be an ongoing, continuous process.

[rjsledz]

Irenaeus clearly talks about ordination when he says the list from this apostle has come to this person he gives specific apostolic succession and if you can't figure that out I'll pray for you.

[Jeff_Huston]

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian I categorically disagree with Bercot, but it's so refreshing to hear a Protestant finally define and describe Apostolic Succession correctly on a YouTube video in which the Protestant describing it is presenting himself as an expert (or at least accurately informed).

[richarddunn]

It's literally in the Bible, explicitly in the Book of Acts. You can't just "give up" on it without also giving up on the Bible. It's precisely how things worked in the Old Testament too; the importance of succession from Moses to Joshua is clear.

[Journey_of_Abundance]

Bercot is clearly reading his own presuppositions into the ECFs. The ideas that bishops held their office until death and that they selected the men who would proceed them are not mutually exclusive. He is fallaciously and without merit asserting that they are, directly in contradition to the Paul's epistles to Timothy no less.

There's no provision in scripture for ordination of ministers outside of one that originates from the apostles. Full stop and no getting around it.

[Neil_]

Calling yourself Anabaptist is much the same as claiming "apostolic succession."

[arturorivas]

0:30 No, it was what that the Early Christians taught:

Clement (Who is actually mentioned in the Bible: Philippians 4:3 )
“Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

Hegesippus
“When I had come to Rome, I [visited] Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And after Anicetus [died], Soter succeeded, and after him Eleutherus. In each succession and in each city there is a continuance of that which is proclaimed by the law, the prophets, and the Lord” (Memoirs, cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 4:22 [A.D. 180]).

Irenaeus
“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

[Pukhelykopter]

Succession meant who is following whom into office??!!! How exactly do you think this happened??? Yes…through ordination!!! It is a too important office to just hand it over to the next guy!!! Because it is not just about doctrine, it is even more so about charism, the charism(s) of the Holy Spirit, which empowers the successors and gives him therefor the necessary Divine authority for his office! And this happened and still happens to this day by the „laying on of hands“, which IS ordination!

[pamphilus]

You gave up on it cause you reject christian tradition and have become your own pope

[georgeluke]

4:23 - I don't understand the argument. It seems the two are tied together. To be tied to the apostles validly is a leg in the argument about having more valid lineage in doctrine than the gnostics?

[MD-effl]

Bercot is getting called out because his description isn't nuanced enough; it needs to be fleshed out historically. Not sure if the average plain Anabaptist parishioner would be capable of following.

[Dlee-eovv]

Avoid those who deny Christ with his people.

[Nsfwpodcastofficial]

He is definitely talking about the Anglican Catholics because from a historical perspective you can trace, eastern, oriental, ACE, Roman & Old Catholics back to the time of the apostles.

[bubaganush]

Argument from silence… not convincing.

[divinenatureonline]

Yep! It's clearly impossible to know who laid hands on who, when, where, and in every congregation while the Apostles lived, and after death. Impossible. This is only a way to limit The Holy Spirit to save to the four-corners of the world. It like drinking from a fire hose.

[kentadamson]

Read the fathers for yourself folks, Apostolic succession was clearly believed by earliest Christians. You see traces of it even in the earliest writings of the fathers. The early church was not Anabaptist at all. Irenaeus very clearly talks about the authority of the Bishops, not only in succession, but also in union with Rome and Apostolic Tradition.

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:2)

[mikael]

Interesting! Are there any quotes you can give to support this?

[DMin]

The elephant is in the room that the kingdom of God is primarily a spiritual kingdom. Hence, succession without the right teaching and fruit is worthless. Since the Pope teaches "all religions are ways to God", thereby identifying himself as an arch-heretic, any appeal to succession has become irrelevant.

[Denver_____]

Guys I think what he is trying to say is no one was saved till the reformation in the 1500s

[JustSomeGuy]

St. Irenaeus - Against Heresies (175-185 AD) Chap. XXVI - THE TREASURE HID IN THE SCRIPTURES IS CHRIST; THE TRUE EXPOSITION OF THE SCRIPTURES IS TO BE FOUND IN THE CHURCH ALONE.

"Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the priests who are in the Church, - those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who together with the episcopate, have received the certain gift of Truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But it is also incumbent to hold in suspicion, others who depart from the original succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, looking upon them either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the Truth. And the heretics, indeed, who bring strange fire to the altar of God - namely strange doctrines - shall be burned up by the fire from Heaven, as were Nadab and Abiud. But such as rise up in opposition to the Truth, and exhort others against the Church of God, shall remain among those in hell."