Summoning Your Tesla While Drunk = Recipe for Disaster!

Telsa's new "Actually Smart Summons" has rolled out, and it's a recipe for disaster. Plus, your Tesla could be towed as EVIDENCE!

[arinerm]

On the subject of Tesla seizures to get video, we need a SCOTUS ruling to differentiate between warrants and subpoenas. A warrant should be a tool used exclusively against those who are suspected of violating a law, and a subpoena should be a tool used to compel production of evidence. Seizing a car or a home-security system is simple government thuggery.

[jpwhre]

What if you're leaving the bar, get in your tesla, and then someone at home summons the car home? Does it then turn it into an Uber ride?

[MrNtesla]

The System is going to fight to keep DUI laws intact for autonomous cars as much as possible. It's too big of a profit center for them to give up.

[joevignoloru]

I'm not a lawyer, but I have done automation software engineering. Driving a car in vehicular traffic or where there are pedestrians walking presents too many variables for a computer to deal with. There are some things you automate and some things you don't. Operating machinery inside a factory where there are controlled conditions and where there are a limited number of variables is something a computerized control system can deal with. But I have my doubts about self driving cars operating in normal traffic situations where things are constantly different.

[creepingcharly]

The only way I'd own or use an autonomous vehicle is when the manufacturer carries the liability and insurance.

[dolcelattice]

So do these hypotheticals also apply to remote controlled vehicles like those operated by children? If not, why? Also, if not, at what scale does a remotely operated vehicle become a "vehicle" 1/2 scale, 1/4 scale, 1/16 scale, 1/64 scale etc.

[rcuadro]

Right now with Full Self Driving V12.5.2 I don't have to touch the steering wheel while the car is driving itself. I know you are a VA Lawyer so maybe this will be something you can picture. I "drove" from the Virginia Beach Convention Center all the way to Smithfield without having to interact with the car. All I had to do was pay attention to the road while the the car did everything else. The car set the speed, changed lanes as needed, entered and exited I64, stopped at all red lights and stop signs, and made it all the way home. All in all it was about a 45 minute drive.

[jeffreysmith]

What if the driver is inflated like in airplane

[Frostbain]

In case you're looking for more info on details, safeties, etc., the Costco clips were from AIDRIVR in California, DirtyTesla also does similar videos in Michigan.

[reluctantuser]

Imagine a 3 year old gets upset at his mom because she didn't buy the chocolate covered sugar smacks for him. To show her how upset his is, he throws a tantrum and darts away from her and out into the lane of traffic (from between two parked cars). How quickly can Tesla react? Has Tesla tested this kind of condition before? How much liability insurance do you have and would it cover self-driving? Can your career plans recover from a three to five year gap while you're a guest of your state's dept. of corrections?

[PetrolJunkie]

The video is stored on a card. They don't need the whole car to get the video. I'm waiting for fourth amendment push back on that issue. I know I'd hand the issue over to a lawyer that doesn't get paid until I get paid and see what happens.

[TheWhiteDragon]

It is honestly really concerning how tech companies have the habit of jumping the gun on getting new tech out as fast as possible without getting the legal stuff sorted out first. Thr biggest issue not too long ago was Microsoft's "rollback feature" that literally recorded everything you did that ended up getting the Feds to shut it down.

[Xanthate]

You would have to be very naive to accept liability for the outcome of a blackbox computer program.

[starbuckpr]

I miss the live video. I do have a Tesla with the smart summon and the feature has a functionality radius about 100 ft. So if you are farther away it will not work, unless you fake your location.

[ericyoung]

In the "who can you sue" game (under VA law) who would be civilly liable in a self driving injury case?

Particularly, I am thinking not just about Waymo, but also self driving semi trucks that are already operating limited routes in the US.

Under the "engage power" doctrine, it sounds as if receivers may be on the hook, not software developers or the holder of the truck's insurance and/or ownership.

Along those lines, do you see a doctrine where software engineers could be held criminally liable for the gross negligence of a vehicle running a their software. I believe in some cases, it could pierce the cooperate vail of software companies.

I admit that is a lot to unpack!

[TheSupervillain]

True re the dashcam but they could just get a warrant for the SIM card in the camera versus the whole vehicle, correct?

[Cloncurrify]

What about an autonomous vehicle which drives an ebriated person home? Isn't that the responsible thing to do?

When technology becomes fully autonomous, watch out!

[stevesouth]

What if someone else presses the button on my phone. Aren’t they the driver then? What if I drop my phone and the button activated. Then nobody is driving.

[XtomJamesExtra]

I'd disagree with this assessment. In almost all laws regarding DUI/OWI, the term "operation" means to be "in control of a vehicle." This ostensibly means being in such a position as to make decisions in how the vehicle drivers and operates. Now, if you're parked in a private parking lot and summon your vehicle to you using the remote summon feature of the Tesla cars, in all technicality you're not in control of that vehicle. The vehicle is driving itself to meet you at your location where your phone is, and DUI for driving on private property isn't exactly something the police can do (there's a legal gray area for private parking lots open to the public and will depend upon how a state's law, or city ordinance, grants policing power to the police over such parking lots). One would have a strong argument that any fully or semi-autonomous vehicle with self-driving capabilities doesn't grant full control to the driver or passenger when in such a mode, thus a DUI or OWI wouldn't inherently be applicable. This will become especially relevant with true full self driving vehicles where the only input from the passenger is a destination. There must be a legal threshold for what constitutes "operating" a vehicle. The threshold of course is variable, but also there must be some logic to such a threshold. In some states what constitutes "operating a motor vehicle" is plainly idiotic. In California, having the keys in the ignition is sufficient to meet this threshold, even if the car is still in park, the car isn't turned on, and the driver had no intent of driving while intoxicated.

Our current legal framework and definitions haven't yet caught up to semi-autonomous and fully-autonomous vehicles.

[jamiecahala]

What if a sober friend is using the phone so they can drive you home