Why I'll Never Go Fully Digital (modelers vs. tube amps)

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The debate between tube amps and modelers seemingly never ends, both have their pro's and con's but I just can't ever see myself going fully digital. In today's live stream we'll talk about why.

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[AdamLevyGuitarTips]

Modeling rigs are requisite for many guitarists playing in church, wedding bands, and large-scale pop gigs. My gigging life is mostly playing jazz clubs in New York City and touring with Lizz Wright — an artist who loves to have energy and vibration on stage: live drums, Hammond organ, electric bass, electric guitar. We still use wedges, not in-ear monitors.

It is difficult for me to get excited about playing music without an amplifier onstage. As good as the technology is these days, it comes down to FEEL for me. Like, if we collectively decided: “We are not using traditional guitars anymore. We are going to use MIDI controllers, with a library of fabulous tones.” That would be a marvel, embraced by many players — but I’d rather stay home. I want to feel the guitar resonating, I want to feel the amp moving air, and I want to feel the guitar and amp interacting.

I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade here. This is just my perspective. Do what you love, and adapt to modern-day working reality and/or your own curiosity/passion. I recently saw Matteo Mancuso play with his trio. No amp onstage, and he sounded great!

There are so many ways to embrace the guitar.

[RobbieF]

I work with computers 40+ hours a week. I've been doing it for 45+ years. When I play guitar, that last thing I wish to interact with is another computer.

[Merglet]

I appreciate the thoughts. Totally respect Rhett's POV, and many will agree. My theory is, if you can achieve the sound you're looking for, whatever the gear is, then that's the gear you should use. If you're missing that little *something*, then look at things like EQ. If that's not doing it for you, explore and explore, tubes or whatever. Having said that, no one needs to spend a fortune to get their own sound for recording or live. But it's WORK, and Rhett's definitely done some work, so respect

[ianhoag]

One of the coolest concerts I've ever been to was Kingfish, at the end of the show, he set his guitar down in front of his fender twin and let it scream for 15 min while he threw picks to the audience and exited stage. I was sitting in the 4th row and my head was spinning the whole way home... it was awesome

[markosimonic]

I turn on my Boss IR-200 and start playing (silent home playing through headphones). No tweaking, because I dont like wasting my time with it. I have it set just the way I like it and I leave it like that. It works for me 👍

[TDenander]

As a full time top level session pro for 40 years on more than 3000 albums, over 100 gold and platinum with legends like Alice Cooper, Hollywood Vampires, Jeff Beck, Ricky Martin etc etc blah blah haha...I've gotten to work with the very best!
I'm 56 years old and started to play 51 years ago...so obviously the large part of my career has been before profilers etc.
My favorite guitarists are people like Eddie Van Halen, Mike Landau, Mark Knopfler....old school analog tube dudes :)

I had the massive Bradshaw racks in the 80's...I used a Rockman on my very first album 40 years ago...I had the stack of 12-15 great tube amps when the Kemper was released and I got it the first month....so my point here is that I know all sides of the sounds.

When I did my first album 12 years ago with my mentor Mutt Lange, It was right before the Kemper and my sounds were really good thanks to great amps...but during that album I bought the Kemper and after using it on a song I got an email saying "whatever you just did to your sound DON'T change it cause it's much better".
When I co wrote, co produced and played on Alice Cooper's "Paranormal" album I used my Kemper during 11 months of work leading up to the actual recording with us all live in the big room at Oceanway in Nashville.
The fantastic legend Bob Ezrin being head producer of course so he brought in a whole bunch of great tube amps and we spent a couple of hours setting them all up together with one of the best engineers in Nashville...most sounded really good but I wasn't feeling THAT sound...so I secretly connected my Kemper and told the engineer to get the sound going and after playing a few chords Bob yelled "THAT'S THE SOUND"...so we used Kemper then.

I fully get the feel of a perfect amp through a superb cab in a glorious studio with the best microphones through a Neve etc...but even for pro players those moments are rare and unless you have a top class studio where you slowly can set up your magical analog gear and warm amps up for sessions and then take your time at home....well...it's hard to beat the 98% level of exact sound and feeling you get from today's digital or DI gear.
I very often get asked about what gear I use on albums from other players and they are constantly stunned to hear that it was Kemper, Axe FX III, Tonex One, Ampere, UAFX Lion or Friedman IR-X etc....

We are already so close to not being able to hear or feel the difference that to end my little rant I just feel blessed to live in a time where it's so easy to get that magical level of sounds in my own studio at home :D
Thanks for a great channel @rhettschull

[JustinChampa]

True story, after 10+ years of gigging with a modeler running stereo straight to the board, I recently had a bug up my ass to play a gig with my old tube amp and pedalboard.
I played 1 gig that way and immediately went back to the modeler. Tones through the modeler are equally as good, on-stage set up is much easier, and of course loading/hauling the gear is much easier. I can’t see myself going back.

[sebbo]

i think simply put it's about feeling connected to your instrument. to me when the amp is part of the instrument. it's not some mumbojumbo. it's real. standing close to your amp while playing guitar is such a great feeling. feeling the punch. and i also love the directional part of it. not some vague thing filling a room much like how it feels playing through studio monitors at home. but this one box punching out the sound. it's a thing that does the thing located at a certain place in the room. like a real piano in a nice room will always feel special. it's a timeless visceral thing that anyone who played a real acoustic instrument at blast full in a nice room has experienced.

[caydespliff]

I learned to play guitar on acoustic, my first “amp” was a line six pod with headphones. once me and my friends started jamming loud, and a buddy of mine started using small tube combos that he let me occasionally play, it was all over. nothing sounds or feels like a tube amp. we forget that our sensory arrays as humans are complex. All of the nuances, the sound pressure effect, the symbiotic relationshop between the amp and pickups just create a sonic environment that no digital recreation can match. for recording it’s a different story, but for enjoying the experience, or for playing live, idk why anyone would avoid using tube amps.

[RollerCoasterFenatic]

I'll get flack for this, but nothing compares to the live feel of a tube amp behind you and the air they move, the nuances from picking, and no modeler I don't care what modeler you're using without an amp on stage will never ever caption that feel and thats a fact!!

[mikeimmekamp]

You are absolutely right. I have been playing live for over 20 years and now I do it like this. I play a tube amp (H&K) with a digital output for the sound engineer. I have my moving air and he has his perfect signal. I have tried fully digital several times, but it's not my thing. And I have also played as an opener for a big star who also stood in front of towers but the microphone behind him was a 60w combo - I know that. Great channel Rhett. Greetings from Germany.

[rmedzoyan]

Only the Sith deal in absolutes! If it sounds good, it is good.

[jeremythornton]

Here's my take on the whole thing. I'm primarily a keyboard player. My sounds generally revolve around piano and organ sounds plus synth sounds. Now a piano and an organ weigh a ton each. Then you get one or a few decent synths in the rig and you're just killing your back. So I use a Korg Kronos which covers all the sounds magnificently. I play through what is basically a very small P.A. for my own monitors. Stereo of course. But since I also play guitar I use an old Zoom amp modeler. pug it into my mixer and I've got a guitar rig too. In my little basement studio I use the onboard amp simms in my DAW. Easy peazey! The less gear that has to be moved, the better. The audience can't tell at all. Nor do they care.

[david]

I use UA and have a Dream, Ruby and Lion. I use pedals in front of them and feed the front line level and an 75 watt monitor amp driving a 12” Celestion speaker designed for this application. Can’t remember the model number. That is my stage sound. I’m very happy with this arrangement. The UA design is simple yet flexible so your not in tweak paralysis.

[RollerCoasterFenatic]

Everything you pointed out Rhett to me is spot on. Just to mention, what i noticed lately is that i have been currently seeing a lot of the modelers being sold on the used market to go back to amps and pedals. People think that the grass is greener on the other side till they try it out and find out its not for them. I was one of them and im so glad i went back to simplicity.

[terraincognitaband]

i love my sweet little 20 watt Marshall DSL20 head with my 2x12 cab. it is super transportable, sounds incredible and can definitely move enough air on stage to have that tickling feeling in my stomach when it's behind me. and yeah what can I say, I just switch it on with one knob and it does exactly what I want from it. no tweaking, no programming, and it just looks cool on stage. I'll never ever go without a tube amp.

[StupidGuitar]

Sounds like the issue everyone has that agrees with you is some sort of variant compulsive disorder or option paralysis. A modeler is no different than an amp. Pick the amp, turn the knobs, set and forget. I literally have 4 presets I’ve used for months now and beyond consign the transpose function I literally never tweak things

[JohnAvillaHerpetocultural]

I am still 100% tube. I hate all the digital stuff.

[fluffkiller]

He makes the point I agree with the most: how many sounds do you realistically need? If you’re a hobbyist, fine.. buy whatever you want. If you’re in a working cover band that needs a WIDE spectrum of tones, go for it. HOWEVER….for most people, what are they chasing? A fender clean, a vox clean and a Marshall plexi. Or, a metal band doing heavy rectifier or 5150 sounds. that doesn’t require even dozens of patches. I have a 3 channel tube amp and I create excuses to switch channels just to play w my sounds. I get it if you’re covering lots of different genre changes in one night. Or if you’re a Studio player or, more pertinent, a studio owner or engineer. But the VAST majority of players are just hobbyists, part timers, weekend warriors etc. for the record, my modeling setup is my Boss IR2 into the PA. and it sounds great. But 3k for a fractal board with thousands of patches? Idk….not my bag, baby…

[pearsonart]

Sustain and dynamics are a hard balance in modeling. It can be done but a good tube amp gets there easier and is more satisfying. A great tube amp makes you play better. Do it long enough and you can model it better too.