What if the Mongols Conquered Europe?

[Mike]

Did Japan and Europe know of each other's existence?

It's kinda fascinating that Samurai and Teutonic knights were fighting off Mongol Invaders without knowing of each other's existence

[austintheamerican]

What if World War 1 never happened (or at least the way we knew it)


The man who killed Franz Fernidad simply goes to another sandwich shop and never gets the chance to shoot at him

[alcatrazz.]

Frederick Nietzsche: "Alcohol is one of the worst enemies of Western Civilization"
Me who watches Whatifalthist: "Yeah right sure"

[matthewbarabas]

i like how they just completely bypassed the Byzantine Empire. maybe Constantinople wasn't worth sacking.

[meneither]

There is a huge mistake in this video.

Using Kublai's conquest of southern China as a base to look at a Mongol conquest of Europe is problematic.

For one, the conquest of Song China was not the typical Mongol conquest with horse archers, farmlands turned to pasture, piles of skulls and horrible raids. It was effectively a Chinese dynasty conquering another. With armies mainly composed of Chinese footmen and Chinese boatmen to take the Yangtze. And even then it took 50 years.

So equating the situation to Europe, the Mongols would have to take a foothold somewhere in Eastern Europe in either the Pannonian bassin or around Kiev (much further away from Mongolia where steppe politics happened.) And then spend a generation slowly conquering Germany, France and Italy using European warfare (and there is still the possibility of a Vietnam happening.)

Not taking this element into account makes the whole scenario extremely flawed.

[Anonymous-ndkw]

I'm dying, Ogedei has an intervention for this alternate history to happen

[nathanielfalen]

Achualy the Mongols were nomadic so they took their cows with them wherever they went so they didn't over stretch that part of their supply lines and their soldiers were able to travel very quickly

[iapetusmccool]

Various thoughts:
1) I'm a bit sceptical about the claim that Mongol conquest prevents democracy. The places the Mongols didn't conquer didn't become democracies either until hundreds of years later. And the existence or not of democracy is certain countries (e.g Japan and Iran) is the result of recent intervention by other powers.

(And if the correlation is more than coincidence, maybe there is some other common factor (eg geography) that makes Mongol conquest easier and also democracy less likely to develop).

2) the Mongols generally only destroyed cities if the resisted (or if, as in khwarezmia, the king commuted a sufficiently bad offence that the Mongols decided the whole kingdom had to be destroyed). So I would expect that there would be less destruction in Italy, as the various small states would capitulate rapidly once they saw what they were facing.

3) the Mongols were generally supportive of international trade.

4) the kill- count at the beginning is I think seriously underestimating Hitler. The figures for Ghengus Khan are for the whole of the Mongol conquests, so the figures for Hitler should be the total casualties for WWII in the West, not just the holocaust.

[chantlerweatherspoon]

France: *sighs* I'm finally finished uniting my duchies, now nothing can go wr-
*Sees Mongol horde coming*
GOD DAM-
*Gets invaded*

[Destroyer]

The Mongols created a gigantic navy to invade Japan, the only reason Japan didn't fall was that the Mongols got unlucky and died in a Tsunami(twice), in the channel there is no chance that there would be a tornado, so an invasion wouldn't really be a problem for them

[dinoman]

what if the Turkish migrations into Anatolia never happened?

[timothycook]

Now I'm just picturing all of Ogedai's Mongol companions cornering him in a room in the palace with a huge sign on the wall that says "Intervention" in Mongol script lol.

[andrewgranger]

The Mongols crushed merchant bases? The Kwarazim were destroyed because they abused a Mongol trade mission. The Pax Mongolia made trade easier.

[GeoPol]

10:00 Even in the Mongol empire, the Mongols are still the exception

[IrishMappermapsmore]

One part that I think is very important to note.
The reason the Mongols lost at Ayn Jalut was the fact the Mamluks attacked the Mongols in Syria knowing the majority of their army went to Mongolia to vote after Ogedai's death.
If Ogedai lives then Ayn Jalut doesnt exist in the first place, the battle being likely elsewhere and a Mongol victory.

[kbrink]

"Persia was taken over by religious fanatics." Is he talking about the Safavid Dynasty or something else?

[GaysianAmerican]

Nope if Ogedei lived they would’ve won the battle of An Jalut and North Africa would’ve been conquered. This is because the Khan and his army would not have been recalled for the Kurutai. Also the Mongols used gunpowder. Also if the cities surrendered peacefully no one would’ve been killed

[benjamincederberg]

Sweden would not be able to control Germany, we dont have the population. I dont understand why you wouldnt even mention any rebellions. I think they are more likely, but with support from the independent nations

[hmm]

"As much as Indians don't like this-" Oh this should be interesting.

[SaudiHaramco]

Didn't the mongols only fail in Syria because they had already sent most of their forces back with Hülegü Khan?