Ableton Live 12: Has Ableton Abandoned Playback Engineers???

In this episode of "Behind the Spacebar," Will discusses his initial thoughts and reactions to the release of Ableton Live 12. He shares his concerns about the lack of features specifically designed for live performance and playback, but also acknowledges the importance of context and the different needs of various performers.

Will explores the refinements and improvements in Live 12, such as the visual updates, momentary keyboard shortcuts, MIDI editing tools, and the performance pack. He also contemplates the possibility of using other software for playback and highlights the benefits of apps like Prime and Playback for specific use cases.

Will concludes by encouraging listeners to share their thoughts and engage in a kind and constructive discussion.

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00:00 - Introduction and background information about the podcast host
00:20 - Announcement of Live 12 launch and public beta
01:08 - Initial disappointment about lack of live performance features in Live 12
03:47 - Realization that live performance means different things to different people
05:33 - Recognition of the refinements and improvements in Live 12
07:05 - Acknowledgement of features that may not be relevant to playback but are important for live performance
08:22 - Discussion of the performance pack and its potential benefits
09:43 - Highlighting the significance of Live 12 for live looping artists
10:19 - Mention of the new accessibility features and keyboard shortcuts
10:42 - Conclusion and mention of future videos focusing on specific updates
11:19 - Live 12 is a better update for playback than Live 11.
13:05 - Will wonders if there is space for another playback app.
15:41 - Will mentions other software options for playback.
16:18 - Will suggests a simpler app focused solely on playback.
17:37 - Live 12 has refinements that benefit all Ableton users.
17:58 - Purchase Live 11 now for a free upgrade to Live 12.
18:38 - Will asks for kind comments and feedback on Live 12.
19:28 - Will invites discussion on a dedicated playback app.
20:00 - Will concludes the episode and asks for support and sharing.

[everydaymilk_]

My issue with the new version of Live is that there seemed to be a big emphasis on their new instruments and Max for Live devices, which are things we can already accomplish externally. I would love if Ableton could put more emphasis on updates to the actual DAW portion since those are the areas where we can’t buy any external instruments or devices for.

It seems understandable though that they’re maybe trying to appeal to newer music producers by including everything a new producer would need, but I feel like Live’s unique offering as a DAW is the emphasis on the Live performance rather than the production aspect.

That being said, I feel we need to get out of the mindset that we need to always be running the latest greatest version of the DAW. The default decision shouldn’t be to upgrade every year, we should instead see what’s being offered and if we think it’s worth the money for an upgrade. Since I personally do all of my music production in Logic and only use Live for performance, there aren’t enough live performance features that would justify me spending $200 for an upgrade. That money would better be spent on buying individual Max for Live devices, Clyphx Pro, and/or AbleSet.

[synthseeker]

Live 12 feature list definitely leans towards music creators, specifically (my opinion) towards composers and creators who start with blank pages and write music, as opposed to creators who focus on audio manipulation/samples/beats and also opposed to live performers (in all their varieties, djs/loopers/playback eng) and I think it's fine. No one lost any functionality and just like you in the playback world have been waiting for your key features, the midi/composer crew have been waiting for their features and in Live 12, they got theirs. It's great for them and ok for everyone else. Nothing was taken away. No features broke...save found/unfound bugs.

The last few releases haven't had much in that midi creator space...but feature priority is a circle that cycles around and everyone will get addressed in time. Hang in there buddy. :)

I'm not a playback engineer, but I work in Ableton Live and find your channel really helpful. Please keep it up!

[thomaslthomas]

Live performance is defiantly different for different people. I have an Ableton rig setup for live. I basically use it session view only. I run MainStage in the background as a 16 channel sound module. I run a midi cable in thru the out door, rather than using a soft patch as it always works. I load every song or set of songs maybe 2-3 into a live set and trigger from session view. I break each song section down into many small scenes that can be controlled via the forward function or linked to a midi pad. This is useful for fermata's etc. Also it always different versions of songs on the fly. If something is going over like a fart in church we get it over with and move on to next piece. If something has people moving we can stretch it on the fly. Our use case seems to be an outlier as we are mainly just replacing Bass, Drums and some brass parts and we are not playing electronic or worship music.

[LucasMessore]

Thanks WIll, definitely have similar concerns although I'm just going to wait until the stable release comes out before I bother updating anything. Been using Live for forever as well and it's great but was super bummed that I have not heard a single thing about audio editing improvements which would have been huge for us that are doing recording too. But it makes sense that their target audience is doing MIDI production so all the new features align with that. Definitely also praying that the new Live is as smooth/quick/responsive as before. Anytime I use Logic/PT/Cubase always surprised how slow they are just to press play or add plugins.

[gaylejones]

Will! Thanks for all you do! Keep the focus for live performance playback.There is room for new ideas and platforms😊

[elmike]

I believe you mentioned it already, but the inability to import locators between sessions still bums me out. As a live performer, your videos have helped me make this process way easier than before. This would streamline the process even more, and would be a game changer.

[Spladoinkal]

One feature that other DAWs are starting to incorporate that kinda bummed me out is the ability to create sections and tell the software to repeat once it gets to the end of a section. I've seen your video about how to do that yourself with the switching between a main and alternative guide queue track, etc. but thought if anyone would add this feature natively it would be Ableton LIVE.

[TSTBand]

Great vídeo Will, i agree with your thoughts and concerns, another thing that i would like Ableton Live to improve is that they use all the cores from a Macbook CPU since it only use the performance cores skipping the efficiency cores, and it would be great if the daw use them all (like Reaper does)

[kittycloudz]

Thanks
Bitwig has a lot of the Ableton features, and sand boxing which helps with stability a lot, Gig performer is also very cool, deep.

[jaspermelly]

Next to arrangement and session view, Ableton should create another “live” view, a trimmed down version of arrangement view that just focuses on the tracks, gains, midi out signals (for eg controlling light) and has a setlist component on the side bar or smt like that

[morizanova]

As ableton Live user since version 4 . Yeah I feel you.

Ableton came as niche for live performance many years ago . Then suddenly lots of people adopted as their all in one tools including productions ecosystem. In the end they hearing music and content creator more than members of playback universe

[jaredfier]

would love to see some coverage on CC Control - I don't have 12 yet, but it seems like a native device for sending midi cc instead of using a m4l device such as map8 or ccmapper. lots of cool applications - i've been using something similar with rtp midi to control a vox processing session from another laptop running playback without having to worry about the two sessions staying in sync.

[mp]

I've been using your setlist template workflow where you drag multiple Ableton files into one master file. I just discovered that the Sends settings are not saved when you do this unlike previous versions. When I drag a song into the master template, the sends for that song are there but the settings are not saved. There are no values on the Sends dial even though the original file has those values. Am I missing something with this?

[yessitsme]

Few years back I started using Reaper for playback because I didn't have the money to pay for the version of Ableton that allowed video. It was pre-pandemic so 4-5 years ago... and I'm still using Reaper. It's been flawless (well, had some issues until I moved to a Mac). I'm also running live piano on it using a MIDI keyboard. The only thing I'm missing is the ability to re-order the playlist easily, but I hear there's plugins for that. When I don't need video or live soft synths though, I just fire up Prime on my iPad.

[guitarplayerpatty]

As far as I can see, and I’ve heard from people who work at ableton…playback engineers and live playback (the type as discussed and used by us) are not heavily considered by their team. That customer base is so small. With that being said, the features that would make our lives easier shouldn’t be to hard to implement and wouldn’t bother the 99% of other ableton customers.

I use ableton for everything, and use it everyday in the field, but I’m certain it’s a pipe dream they ever listen to the playback community for features or updates.

[mattcopeland]

Will, what new features would you love to see added to Ableton Live?

[aplica]

Hello, have you tried the M-Live B.Beat PRO 16, which aims to replace Ableton and any other computer on stage? Could you give your opinion on this machine? Cheers!

[jesusserranomusic]

Hi! Very interesting video here. I follow you long time ago, and as you say, I am user of Digital Performer since V5. My approach of “Backingtracks musician” is actually not live looping or Dj. I used all these daws. DP11 (chunks) Live 11 (play in synchro with zero latency, not like DP) and the last of them, Reaper, with some configurations with sub projects/tabs like the Chunks of DP…

Live is very clear and GUI-Friendly for stage situations, but I think that other daws are maybe more powerful.

As always, each DAW is different and perfect or not depending the work to do…

Congratulations!!! 🎉

[Metroam]

Doesn't Qlab do what you want for a playback app?

[Phadddy]

Agree, Live is moving towards a DAW for mouseclick electronic musicians, those things are useless to me. They need to remember what the "Live" stands for....what about something like Shaperbox integrated for Live performance?