A Question with Demonic Origins: Infant Damnation

Today, we are discussing one of the many side topics brought into the John 6:44 Debate on Unconditional Election between Provisionist Dr. Leighton Flowers of @Soteriology101 and Calvinist Dr. James White of @AominOrg

this of course being the topic of infant damnation. this was a very carefully calculated move to sway the emotions and The Listener in favor of the provisionist perspective, and we're going to look at how it was set up to be used this way a month ahead of time.

#bible #debate #reformedtheology

[mimisides]

So you can't answer the question either huh? We both know why. Like James White, you aren't really a Calvinist. You adopt a position that you cannot defend, because you're a spiritual coward. Calvinism gives you an excuse for not evangelizing and having no influence for God in the world at all. The very existence of this YouTube channel is for that reason alone.
And I can prove it. My prediction, however, is that you will not take up the challenge as you know I'm right. And in avoiding the challenge you will prove it.

[sevencrickets]

It's just absurd. When baal gate is the strongest thing you have against Calvinism, you have basically admitted that you have no argument.

[TwitchyTheologian]

Thank you! We need to put this Baalgate crap to rest. I am tired of the nonsense!

[destroyingtheworksofthedev]

I’ve concluded that this is all a form of idolatry. These people put their family and people before God. He does according to his will among the host of heaven and the inhabitants of the Earth, and no one can stay back his hand and say what have you done

[Zaloomination]

Ironic that it is ONLY under calvinism that God has any freedom to save ANY or ALL infants. Under Provisionism, meanwhile, NO infant can logically be saved. ALL would be lost. Thank God this is not the case.

Leighton was a fool to bring this up.

*Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling.*
Proverbs 26:27

[Godfrey]

The Lutheran moderator was the real MVP

[joevasanu]

Can somebody answer the question though? Under Calvinism, are there both elect and non-elect infants? Thank you!

[carlpeterson]

This was started by an open theist heretic (Idol Killer). Flowers does not mind cuddling up with the heretics as long as they are against Calvinism. And that is sad. I think maybe at first he had good intentions. That is he was just trying to debate and show why he does not believe in Calvinism. Okay fair enough. But now he has put his lot in with those that deny God's true omniscience and power.

[steventerry]

Calvinist parent: Yep, I'm elect and I have MY salvation. Too bad for you pumpkin!

[johnunderwood]

I've heard that same lie at my own church, about Calvinists believeing that all infants that die, go to hell. Please help me to understand how or why they would say that!

[oracleoftroy]

Calvinists believe there is one way to salvation, and it is by God's grace and mercy based on God's work on rhe cross. It doesn't depend on what man thinks or does or anything about the person, including their age; God is the one who saves. Calvinists trust God to do what is just.

What this whole incident reveals is that if salvation is really up to God's choice, McGrew and Leighton do not trust God to do what is just. They have to step in for God and show him how to be just. They might as well be atheists with how little faith they have in God.

[songoku]

Leighton and the rest of his minions always dare to challenge God's sovereignty.

To them, it is a great travesty when God said, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."

[timothy]

Thank you so much for showing the wicked comments from Warren (Idol Killer). He originally made the assertion and tried to be amazed that people were misunderstanding him. Then he says he doesn't think all Calvinists think that way, but then turns right around and basically says it again. And Leighton Flowers and his guest (a Leighton 2.0 type of YouTuber) just sit there and either smirk or agree with it. The bottom line, the hatred for God's sovereignty and the elevating of man's will leads to absurd, unbiblical arguments and the ditch of open theism. Ephesians 1:4, 2:1-3, John 6:37-44, Romans 9, and many other verses just gets under their skin. The baal baby worship thing was just the latest of ridiculous, but insulting assertions from these guys.

This is ridiculous. This never entertained Calvinist minds until this guy labored this idea out of his ***.

[joebrowser]

2:45 “one of the worst lines ever told in church history”? Really
I think Calvinists have way worse lines told. Like this one:
“any kind of Evangelistic efforts I have a 100% success rate for the kingdom of God. So either it is going to add to the condemnation of vessels prepared for wrath for Destruction that God will use to glorify himself so it'll be adding to the condemnation of unbelievers where God will be just and destroying them for eternity or he will use the preaching of the Gospel in the way he primarily has which is how he draws his elect to himself so l have a 100% success rate with whatever I'm doing”
Sounds so merciful and hopeful to be glad thatvyour preaching is adding condemnation to some people. I can smell God’s love in that Calvinistic statement.

[mlneale]

The Bible is clear that we are not held responsible for what we don't know, "...the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Romans 5 also says that where there is no knowledge of sin it is not imputed. Spurgeon and Strong dealt with this question as well.

[daddada]

The question some hard calvinist is running away from.. hahahahha

[vekl]

MY NEW FAVORITE CHANNEL!!! I just subbed!! To God be the GLORY!!

[reformedpilgrim]

4:39 _"You know, God's determined you to go to hell, like, there's nothing I can do about it."_ Well, Warren, even _outside_ of this deterministic view you articulate, there's nothing you can do about it. Parents have *no control* over the salvation of their children. None. Zero. Nada.

In Luke 5:1-11, Jesus commands the disciples to go fishing, and to cast their nets in a particular place. Even though exhausted from a fruitless night, they obeyed and nearly capsized from the abundance of the catch. Jesus then likens fishing to evangelism, telling the disciples He will make them fishers of men. Who will give them their catch? Jesus.

We see this concept spoken of by Paul in 1st Corinthians 3:5-8. Paul likens preaching the good news to planting and watering. But who gives the growth? God alone. The planters and waterers are God's fellow workers, but those fellow workers are nothing; it is God who gives the growth.

The same can be applied to parents. We are to teach our children at all times about God, applying Deuteronomy 6:4-9, Matthew 28:18-20, and elsewhere. But who gives the growth? God alone. There's nothing I can do to ensure the salvation of my kids, just as there's nothing I can do to ensure the salvation of the stranger on the corner. We are commanded to evangelize (an inescapable imperative). *But God gives the growth.*

[donhaddix]

Romans 2:14-15

New International Version

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

do infants have a conscience?