Economist Explains How Government Wastes BILLIONS | Aaron meets Mariana Mazzucato | Downstream

The management consultant industry is worth around a trillion dollars, yet few people on the street could discern exactly how that money is spent. Much of it is spent by governments with the UK leading the charge in contracting out a huge range of services to these huge, opaque companies.

To discuss how we've ended up in this position, and what can be done about it, Aaron is joined by Mariana Mazzucato, co-author of 'The Big Con: How the Consulting Industry Weakens our Businesses, Infantilizes our Governments and Warps our Economies'.

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[fullovstars]

NHS waste millions every year on useless management consultants. I always considered that if you need management consultants then you should fire your managers as they are obviously not up to the job you are hiring them for?

[Magna_pinna]

Mariana is so insightful. She speaks clearly and cuts through the BS.

[ljisbister]

Thank you. I worked for a local authority who at one point called in management consultants. Their recommendations were, simply put, get rid of a large percentage of your staff (staff had already been cut back) and sell some properties (properties that had already been up for sale for several years). The general view was that they were a waste of (scarce) money, and the only (real) reason for calling them in was to be able to demonstrate that the local authority had fully addressed cost cutting measures. If they hadn't done so then Central Government would simply have ignored the requests from local government for assistance. (In the event Central Government pretty much ignored the requests anyway, but all the tick boxes had been checked...)

[nowthenzen]

Thanks! Another good one. Keep 'em coming!

[kattydover]

Thank you for this woman who makes so much sense, clear and concise and intelligent. There is hope.

[peternolan]

Ex-Big Four here... lowly manager level not partner... Mariana Mazzucato makes complete sense and maps my experience accurately. Thank you for this interview Novara - it has been very helpful and I will read her book. Plus check her courses. 1T$ industry!!! That is a whole lot of profit... consulting operates on the "A third, a third, a third" basis - A third for overhead, for salaries and for profit.

[andrewsimpson]

Thanks, she is one of my favourite economists.

[ianedmonds]

I've worked in the corporate world for 20+ years and every single time I've come into contact with consultants my impression has always been they are long on performance from a theatrical point of view and very short on results from any measurable metric.
Workshops are the performances where they try and map a system they have no prior exposure to. Always they leave the workshop with less of an understanding than the organisation they are being paid to improve.
Consequently their recommendations are dogshit.

[SW-lwmt]

This is exactly what's happened with PWC in Australia. They were brought in by the Australian Govt 9 years ago to close tax loopholes. Consult they did, but behind the govt's back they used insider information to garner new business with Big Tech to help them avoid the tax restructure.

[stmatthewsisland]

a podcast featured a management consultant for 25 years (David Craig) who said ‘there’s nothing you can tell me about taking the money out of big corporations pockets or government pockets because I’ve seen the experts do it…it’s easier in fact to get big amounts of money out of governments than small amounts…most executives don’t even know what’s happening in their companies, they only mix with their own type in their clubs or whatever, they are quite happy to have someone else do the work that they are paid to do’

[Adamb]

I'd like a live app with easy access Monitoring MP's performance, donors, policy choices, local satisfaction levels, income sources etc. to make MP's more accountable

[aesopsock]

There are also consultancy groups who specialise in destroying company value, allowing hedge funds and banks to "short" (bet against) said company. BCG (Boston consultancy group) ALLEGEDLY had had a hand in many situations like this, and have also consulted nation's who ended up collapsing into a state that was easily sold off to American private industry. BCG ALLEGEDLY had a role in Brexit, and currently are ALLEGEDLY consulting Netflix trough their disastrous business decisions.

It's an error to see consultants as overpaid and incompetent when viewing consultants work on places like NHS. Quite often their whole job is to waste money and make bad decisions, in aid to devalue it. Especially if they are working for something that is owned by a nation.

[kerryfry]

Get her on with Gary Economics. That would be really interesting.

[colinsavill]

Great interview, Aaron and Novara really growing as a serious source of information.

[BluesRootsMusic]

When I was an undergraduate, studying systems analysis and design, we had a very gifted lecturer who said of consultants (and I guess many of us were being trained to be one) if you cannot make a quantifiable difference whilst "consulting" its just a name badge, not an actual role you are undertaking.

[BluesRootsMusic]

WOW! can't remember hearing so much truth and great analysis in such a short space of time. Thanks!!!!

[pshyc]

This was amazing! Im so fascinated by the topics covered in this interview and will definitely be looking into more of Marianas work who comes off as an incredible speaker.

[SiphoNgwenya]

Mariana is a somewhat refreshing voice and raises sound arguments about the capture of states by the private sector, globally actually. It is also interesting to note how she contradicts herself a number of times, for example, when it comes to her China vs the West critique. It's actually fascinating to see how both Aaron and Mariana while espousing radical positions still fall into the trap of wanting to be politically correct, at least to a some extent, i.e., dissenting voices but still within the broader neo liberal construct.

[mynameisjoejeans]

Every time Mariana Mazzucato speaks or writes on a subject she has such a perfect, evidenced conceptualisation of the structural issues and expresses it in a really clear way. Excellent long form interview from Novara as always.

[royloveday]

Wonderful. I love this woman. She nails what we need to see from our government if we are to believe Labour are serious.