Economist explains why Britain's economy is set up to fail | Mariana Mazzucato interview

Mariana Mazzucato is a Professor at University College London and the author of the newly released The Big Con.

Interviewer: Oli Dugmore
Camera: Joel Dunn-Wilson, Harry Ainsworth

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[davidmcculloch]

The NHS is probably the greatest example of an organisation suffering from tampering by politicians advised by business consultants. From the Salmon report to Lansley's obsession with outsourcing, resulting in longer waiting lists and a top-heavy management structure. [Politicians + business consultants = a fatal combination.]

[stewartbig]

It's so interesting to see someone as intelligent and academically minded as Professor Mazzucato also be so engaging and charismatic. It's not that often that someone can combine those two aspects, which is so important because she can reach people with these important discussions who would otherwise not stay for dry discourse from the normal academic-type.

[ewen]

Fantastic interview, and a really important book.

Also, I really appreciate her genuine shout out to her Phd student who coauthored her book.

[altGoolam]

People who pointed this out thirty years ago, were called communists, publicly attacked, cut out of the political process etc.

Today we have witnessed the spoiled fruits of this bad policy, but we still have to deal with political opposition from the feeders.

[CharlieMac]

I used to discuss economics and politics in the pub with a guy who was a consultant, who lived by me. After much discussion, I eventually got him to admit that his main objective was to get more business from companies by telling them what they wanted to hear. If he should happen to tell them that their management systems and strategy were the cause of the company's woes, he wouldn't hear from them again, which he had experienced.

[Shredx]

I believe a big part of the problem is the way our government views the population. It has a very low opinion of us. It doesn't value us highly, has no ambition for us, and worse destroys any ambition we have in ourselves. We deserve a government that can treat us with respect and warmth

[stephensmith]

I’ve seen one consultancy in action and it went like this:

The Old School in a company who were experts were locked in a kind of war with the Business School Grads who knew very little, except HRM theory. The two sides could no longer talk to each other. So the Consultants passed on the Grads’ ideas to the Old School and the Old Schoolers’ ideas to the Grads. As there was some merit in both sides, the ‘Consultants’ Advice was very sound and the company did fabulously well.

The Consultants earned a mint out of the company and no damage was done.

They got credited with the company’s success. But had no ideas of their own at all. That was probably fortunate.

[Tochinoki]

My younger brother worked as a consultant fresh out of university in a field totally unrelated to his education. There's no way he had any expertise to offer, he was hired because of class basically.

[michaellawrence]

Great woman who speaks the truth and listening to her is a pleasure

[Skylark_Jones]

Keir Starmer should reach out to this woman, she would be a real asset.

[gedog]

I have shared/posted and spread this one around a bit - very important content - I have been an NHS employee present during the use of consultants on more than one occasion. They NEVER make anything better. They burn a lot of money and they 'prove' the things we'd already told them. Mariana, thank you for at least telling our story.

[vidsmee]

There are many times over the past 5 or 10 years when i've asked myself, where are the people who really understand the modern economic problems? where are the experts and what are the actual solutions to the issues we face? It just turns out that the media doesn't spend any time promoting academics and current thinkers who understand modern issues at all, and for this reason i find myself enjoying this channel more and more, since it isn't confined by the ancient TV media rules. Oli always seems to ask pointed questions and gives interviewees a great space to discuss their views. Great job to everyone involved.

[supremeownage]

"Socialize the risk, privatize the rewards." Don't think I've ever heard Capitalism explained so clearly.

[somersetsharman]

Really enjoyed this conversation, great insights and thought provoking words, great job everyone x

[linmorell]

Thank goodness for this. Someone has addressed this issue, it’s the first time I have felt there is a chance of change in this disjointed society. I wait to see these ideas materialise in to action.

[richardblock]

Great public intellectual. Her book, The Value of Everything is great and this one sounds pretty wonderful. She is dead right about about consultancy. The dependency relationship is set up not to solve problems per se, but to continue using consultants. Insanity.

[Ankit_UK]

Bought the book, arrived yesterday and looking forward to reading it! I worked in the automotive vehicle development industry and it resonates with me as I have worked for a consultancy and also as their customer about 5 years ago and I had the same experience mentioned, it's a very refined confidence trick the customer never gains the know-how but gets a tick in the box, young graduates get thrusted into expert roles, con-sultancies get a license to make money and gives something both parties to hide behind each other.

[tashussain]

"... socialising the risk and privatising the reward..." that's the mess of many modern economic models.

[minuterevolutionary]

Mazzucato is obviously brilliant, and her topic is crucial. On a related, perhaps slightly more general note: her point about using consultants as a rubber stamp on knowingly harmful decisions connects to a broad problem of fuzziness in institutional procedure and official justice, born of situational convenience to institutions and their stakeholders. When a decision is unattractively clinical and based in purely material considerations such as cost saving, blanket it in moral concerns. When a decision is based in ideology or moralism or bigotry, blanket it in procedural imperatives. Watch for this in courts, in accounts of corporate malfeasance and official violence and corruption. It is a shell game, designes in both directions to shield the naked power relations at the heart of inequity and harm.

[chriswills]

You have been getting some top interviewees recently. Excellent.