To the Messenger of the Ephesian Assembly Write (Rev. 2:1-7)

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@DougGoodin
@CrossToCrown

[Pdub_For_Him]

Doug,
This series is mind-blowing exegesis from Rev. The old covenent scripture is clearer than ever! So enlightening.
I am buckled in for the ride, brother!
Peace!
Paul

[LawofChristMinistries]

My lack of understanding Rev 20-22 has always made it difficult for me to see revelation as first century

[jimilicam]

38:04 Brief comment alluded that prophetic gifts of the church have ceased and then you questioned how the commenter came to that conclusion.

I would like to offer two biblical lines of reasoning:
1) After the 400ish years of silence from God post-Malachi, prophecy was introduced again “in the last days” (Acts 2:14-18, Joel 2:28-29). I believe the last days refers to the Apostolic period before the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. with the conclusion of the Old Age. If this is not agreed upon, that’s fine (not the point of the interaction at this point).

If the “prophetic gifts of the church” have not ceased, only two options to explain this. Either:
a) I am wrong about “the last days” time period and we are still living in “the last days” (as dispensationalists believe) and therefore should expect prophecies to be live and well today, or
b) I am still correct about “the last days” being limited to the period around the Apostles, but there might be a further explanation as to why we should expect the “prophetic gifts of the church” to have CONTINUED even after “the last days” spoken of in the Bible.

2) Regardless of which option we take for point #1, I think this second line of reasoning will clarify and confirm why the “prophetic gifts of the church” have ceased with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The second point is this: The Lord foretold of this in Daniel 9! Specifically in verse 24, He declared that He would “seal up vision and prophecy” at the end of the “seventy ‘sevens’” and continues to describe till the end of the chapter that this would culminate in putting an end to sacrifice and destruction of the temple. On this channel, I believe we are in agreement that the “seventy ‘sevens’” of Daniel 9 are in our past and therefore have be “sealed up” (aka have ceased) in our past as well.

This is also an internal biblical argument as to why the cannon of Scripture is closed and we are not to expect any further revelation, AS WELL AS internal evidence for the dating of Revelation being written BEFORE 70 A.D. (rather than 95 A.D. as other try to propose based on an obscure statement from the Church Father, Irenaeus) given that John’s “vision and prophecy” of Revelation needed to occur before all “vision and prophecy” would cease with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

[snibbornairb]

It seems like the text says Messenger, and then the reader has to decide whether or not it's angelic or human. I don't think that we should bring to the text that it is angelic or human, but that the role is a messenger. By saying that messenger means angel it shows I think a bit of a presupposition.

[cs]

in the book of Enoch he talks about the angels who did not do their appointed work and have been outcast for judgment.... in reference to the messenger of the churches