When Should You Start Building Mils - Hoi4

Analyzing when you should start building military factories to maximize your production output.

Yes this video is a direct attack at civ greeders everywhere. Stop, get help.

[guncolony]

This guy singlehandedly turns every hoi4 MP player into a sweat

[ertrick]

I've been into civ-greeding for a while now (apart from with the US because there's literally no point, lmao), but you sobered me up just from showing all the maxed out building slots. Like damn, you're right, what have I been doing to myself, robbing myself of all those incredible building slots like I have been?

[Leviazel]

Great work. There is one thing to consider here though: A player who builds mills early may indeed have more equipment at the war start, however they will be extra vulnerable to bombing as their repair capacity will be limited. They also won't have been able to build anti-air, infrastructure, railways, and forts very rapidly. Equipment is not a be-all-end-all.

A germany who attacks into scorched earth will find their soldiers un-supplied and a weak industry unable to keep up with repairs and upgrades.

[iannoyed]

I've always believed in mil greed green factories look better than the orange ones anyways

[Dankmaster]

Things to consider when doing a multiplayer Eco: Spy agencies(for collab governments/Tech stealing etc.), Trade Backs, and Civ boosting.
I've met many UK's with with a very decent economy because he was civ boosted by USA, or Germany Players with Great eco's because the entire axis was boosting him, also great italian economies because he built collabs on yugo/greece.
Consider your allies for your eco during multiplayer games, they can be a very deciding factor during the playthroughs.

[aurex]

I was wondering what's optimal for Japan if you intend to go the historical route. Pushing for early mils should give you a speed bonus in actually ending the war with less material losses, on top of the larger amount of time you had to use the occupied territories' civs as well.

[lyrical]

As a fan of this channel, I have to say there are some serious problems with this test.
1. You're using the UK and pre-conquest Germany, countries with a low amount of building slots. For countries like the US or USSR the running out doesn't happen nearly as early and the moderate level of greed (2 years before joining the war) is often the most optimal.
2. You're using 1936 guns as the sole standard, which no country other than the USSR or China will want to use once the war actually kicks in. For anyone else, higher tech tier equipment will be needed, and those are not likely to be fully researched until at least 39.
3. Even if one were to starting 1936 equipment, having less civs means having less wiggle room to import. That can either halt production or significantly slow the rate at which mils are built. The fact that you used a very resource non-intensive weapon didn't allow for this to factor in.

[Vincrand]

When playing the Netherlands I start building mils and get the civs from Belgium and Luxembourg (either by diplo or war). Even then I can't fully equip my entire army (78 divisions), but at least enough to hold of the Germans.

[nominatorchris]

So it's a build slot issue? So USSR is the only viable major that can do this? Or is the equipment earned still more useful than civ greeding as USSR?

[mimile]

In MP, it has been meta for some time to start building mils in mid 37. Soviet is different since barbarossa starts later and they have a lot of railways and airports to build. Usually, soviet would build civs until jan 38 - mid 38.
For your germany test, you also have to consider that you have to build refs which cost more than building mils. You also are making collabs which takes a lot of civs for some time. It makes civs slightly more worth it (though in MP, since you are getting more civs from trade, you are going to get more civs in total and run out of building slots if you start mils later).

[whaleio]

We also need to remember that the earlier mils that you get tend to go into lower quality equipment, especially with countries like USSR that only start with 3 research and cant afford to be ahead in gun tech.

[henrykri]

I take available resources into consideration when deciding on civs/mils, especially when playing a minor nation. I don't know if it is the best, but it feels good. What I mean is that if you know that you are staying on the current trade law for along time I sometimes build one or two mils early/earlier before continuing with civs. I do that if for example you got two steel and one aluminium which isn't used for anything, and you aren't producing any support equipment which you know you will need before the war. I build a mil to put on producing support equipment. Of course the already existing mils are producing only what you will really need.

[goldone]

Given how good 2.5 years is, would be interesting to see earlier starts as well. I.e. 3 and 3.5 years. Curious at what point it becomes worse

[dave]

This test does feel a little flawed because of your choice of production. In my experience, very little of your starting equipment is worth producing (like you've mentioned), and because of that a lot of early mill ic ends up either producing garbage you don't need, or overproducing necessary equipment such as trucks, support, or infantry equipment .

The only material advantage I see Anti-Civ-Greed giving is more Fighter1/Cas1s and Medium1/Heavy1s, as they can be researched before January 37. By the time figher2/cas2s and medium2/heavy2s are researched however, Normal Civ Build is going to have more military factories, and figher2/cas2s and medium2/heavy2s are more potent and more expensive. This difference can be pretty impactful if your war is going on until 43 or 43. I think this difference could be negated somewhat by tech rushing, but I'm not sure by how much, and it's very nation dependent. I would still recommend Normal CIv builds, especially for multiplayer.

[NicholasW]

Really liked the point about how civ greeding leads to players building in bad slots, which really lessens the effect of having those extra civs. Never would've guessed that, but it makes total sense. Didn't realize anti-civ greeding was so effective.

[lestrade]

71Cloak DESTROYS hoi4 metas with LOGIC

[Mag_ladroth]

When I play Germany I usually start building mils after I get 100 civs, so usually around mid-1938 early-1939

[CG-ehoe]

Insightful video. But, arn't you overlooking a few things?
1. Having more mills earlier isnt really useful, as you usually DONT want to produce basic infantry equipment, but modern figthers (or tanks, or cas - but you get the point). So having mills early is a bit of a waste as before you get the fighter 3 tech, you can't really do anything with them, you will just produce stuff that will soon be outdated.
2. If you produce more advanced stuff, you need to import more res. This means that your civ count becomes more important; if you use 20 civs to cover your imports but only have 50, its a huge toll while using 40 civs when having 50 basicially halts your economy. So once you produce stuff that isn't basic infantry equipment, your civs become more valuable. You mention this towards the end of the video but from my experience with tank heavy builds, you underestimate the amount of trade you need to support 150+ mills on tanks.
3. running out of slots IS a problem. For the UK. And for the prewar germany, but germany is about to get more slots by just conquering them.
4. You dont invest 100% of your construction in civs/mills (you kinda mentioned that one, but ignored the consequences). Once you build rafineries, forts, AA, supply hubs, railways and so on, building slots becomes a lot less problematic.

Im not saying this would overthrow your findings, just that i can't trust your data as long as there are so many simplifications.

[TopShotst]

Production efficiency is also a factor. More mills early on the same equipment gets to max production efficiency faster than thus more guns now and later.

[manic_eraser_cat]

I have always built a ratio of 1 civ and 2 mils to ideally have military factories coming in early whilst not ignoring my civilian factories. I wonder if you could document the effects of doing a set ratio versus the data you have gathered here?