Aphantasia: a life with no mind's eye (interview)

Aphantasia is a condition where people are unable to create mental pictures or imagine things in their "mind's eye". It is often (but not always) associated with neurodivergent (autistic, ADHD) individuals.

This week I am talking to Dianna Moylan, an aphantasiac, about her experience of life without mental pictures.

The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat (Oliver Sachs):
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[diannamoylan]

I love that my experience is helpful to others. I spent a lot of my young life puzzled that people seemed to have superhuman powers that I could not reach. I am now so much more aware that we are all different, and the difference of having no pictures is not as rare as I feared

[thinkthistime]

I always thought it was basically a metaphor when people told me to close my minds and imagine things. I have absolutely no mind’s eye, and life would be SO much less depressing if i could.

[Findingemo]

I have it. What she said about not being able to see a loved ones face broke my heart. I never realized other people had that gift :(

[smeekinwood]

I literally just found out that "most people" see things when they close their eyes. That sounds terrifying to me!

[dianapaonessa]

I am 71 years old and only heard about aphantasia a couple of years ago. I have it, and I never knew or even suspected that other people actually could SEE something in their "mind's eye". What a revelation!

[McFlingleson]

I think I'm the opposite. My thought process is so visual that I can't really imagine a thought process without mental images. Now, something I always hear is that most people are able to make a disembodied voice in their heads which they call an "internal monologue", and I just don't have that. When I was a really little kid, I had sort of a "language" of mental images that I had made up where every word had a specific mental image to go with it, and when I talked to someone I would form a sequence of mental images in my head and then say the words that those mental images went with, and when someone said something to me I would have to translate all their words into mental images before I understood it. This was very exhausting, so I avoided talking to people if I could. What I do now is, if I'm thinking about something that requires the use of language to express it is, I imagine myself telling someone about what I'm thinking, which is similar functionally to an internal monologue, but the difference is that I can't just make a voice in my head like everyone else.

[nryane]

This is a THING!!!

I could never “visualize” my future or what you asked Dianna to do - a horse in a field, its legs, a double-rainbow, or other, similar things. I used to wonder what made my brain like that - that I couldn’t visualize. Yet, when I SEE something, I often can then transfer it, with practice, to seeing it in my mind.

A psychologist once told me how to remember things, by making up a story. It was so much effort for me, that I would FORGET whatever story I attempted to make up! I suspect that that is part of the functionality of my brain, or LACK, thereof. My grandchild has this lack of brain function for Math processes and will have help in their new school, because of their recent autism diagnosis.

So much has come out about MY brain, as a result of my grandchild’s autism diagnosis! I’m so grateful that this child INSISTED from about the age of 4, and finally received a diagnosis, 9 years later!

My turn! I’ve written over this holiday weekend, to an autism group in my province, about how to go about getting a diagnosis.

Thank you and Dianna for discussing this topic of aphantasia.

Blessings!

[jesters.workshop]

I’m an artist with aphantasia
Surprisingly I work very well with 3D concepts and have an easy time with design work
I’ve tried to explain that I don’t have an imagination and people just seem extremely confused 😂🤷🏼‍♀️ for me my “imagination” is like a small sketchbook where I make collages of memories of items. You say think of a field with a horse and my brain goes hm well I saw a field in Zelda BOTW I’ll use that and the horse from spirit is cool paste that on top and boom field and horse. Big difference is I’m not actually seeing it I’m just remembering what they look like and trying to think of what a collage might look of it
Also! I identify as autistic and hyperlexic from age 3 or 4 as well!

[sheilaw]

I like that you address the ability to imagine sounds. Usually discussion of aphantasia is very focused on sight, but doesn't mention sound, smells, taste, and touch. I find it really interesting how it varies among people who can visualize a scene which senses will be included.

[micahelen]

I can't even imagine how one would think without images. I would be a 10, with photo-realistic mental images, but my brain relies so heavily on visuals that it makes learning certain things difficult. For example, in maths, I'm pretty decent at percentages & fractions, as I can visualize those, however equations are impossible & I struggle with even basic arithmetic as I just see numbers floating around (in Times New Roman font!). My partner doesn't visualize very well but can just understand equations, and really doesn't get my need to be able to visualize in order to understand. He's an absolute maths whizz, but I can still work-out percentages quicker than him, just by seeing the "chunks".

[claudiaghiotto]

This is so interesting, thank you! It's fascinating how every one of us grows up without knowing how other people's minds function. I can hear the buzzing of my own bloodstream in my ears, and it wasn't until I went through the process for autism diagnosis this year that I realized that most other people don't. I have a pretty good mind eye: when I read a book, I can actually see the scenes happening, and when my boyfriend said to me that he can't, I was really puzzled. Now I understand how some people can find books boring. I can imagine things in good detail, although not perfectly. But, interestingly, I also have trouble recognizing people's faces. I need to see a person several times before I can recognize them, and even then, with some people I can never be sure it's them until I talk to them, unless they have very distinct features or they are people I see on a daily basis.

[lizmorris]

What an enormously interesting conversation between two intelligent articulate women. A joy to listen to.

[criss]

What a random video to discover today! I study psychology but also I think I'm autist myself, but some days ago I was discussing with some classmates about how they think and imagine and everyone told me they see pictures and I was the only one that doesn't. It's just a big coincidence your video appear on my recommendations!

[MC-tlbf]

i've never been able to imagine things, for example faces, even my parents faces. people are surprised because i'm an artist and they think i have to have at least an OK minds eye but i don't, when i try to picture things i see coloured blobs that quickly disappear.

[annansmith]

Ohhhh Geeee. This is a thing?!? I’ve ALWAYS struggled with that “picture a field with a house” thing ... which isn't a problem until they asked “what color is the house?” Me: 🤷🏻‍♀️” And I’ve also recently discovered that face blindness- (prosopagnosia) is a thing which I totally have; something I knew that I struggled with but didn't realize was a "thing"

I'm so much like you in most ways, Sam, except I ONLY have an ADHD diagnosis - received at age 37 (I'm 45 now) shortly after my second child was born..(It was interesting that the doc told me that's a common time when a lot of adult women end up coming in for help). The diagnosis didn't fit with my childhood. I wasn't hyper, I easily got good grades without much effort, did homework, etc. My parents still refuse to accept that I have ADHD, yet they also can't understand why I struggle with certain things (executive function issues are my biggest impairment) and why I "analyze everything" - -

I came across a video of Tony Attwood about Autism/Aspergers in girls/women .... and there it was...childhood-me was the posted-child for the female version of Autism that they're beginning to understand more and more each day. The things that aren't in the DSM, like wearing non-fashionable comfy clothing - and the same sweatshirt every day, being a tom-boy/relating more to boys, and being a student of psychology from early on, etc. Then there are the "special interests" that I always related to...These are things that always stood out to my parents when they talked about me as a child; they always used to expression "she marched to the beat of her own drummer".

Anyway, after his video, autism seemed like a good fit, but I didn't related too much into the sensory issues except that loud noises - or the conflicting noises of each child's iPad playing two different YouTube videos drives me bananas. But as I dug deeper, more and more sensory issues were realized. I went and got my hearing tested around 40-yrs old because I struggled to hear conversations - turned out to be more of a processing issue, as my hearing was fine as long as there wasn't any background noise. Enter the recent visual realizations described above - and autism seems to fit the bill. I also have some experiences with touching/feeling things - like the foam they call an egg-crate cushion... I can't stand touching it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Oh gosh, I've gone on and on... anyway... I think you'd see me as autistic and after watching so many of your videos, I do see a lot of similar ADHD in you...I think looking into a diagnosis might be worth it because meds can help... I'm good at unsolicited advice, too!!

Thanks for all your amazing content, Sam.... I appreciate you!! You're my fave Aspie YouTuber ... xoxo

[Educated_Guesser]

I experience things very much like Dianna does. I tend to think and talk in terms of concepts rather than visual appearance or emotion. No images in my dreams. I have poor facial recognition and have a hard time bowing to group think. I like people, but as an introvert I prefer to deal with people one at a time. I can manipulate sounds in my mind but wouldn't say I was musically inclined. I don't see any of this as a pathology, but in my youth I wished to be a kind of group person that I just was not, or ever would be. I have always known that I was different than most people which is actually very liberating once I accept that. This actually makes me very curious about how other people reason things out. Very entertaining to see the thought processes of others. This is the true diversity of people.

[SatanOfficial]

I can spend so much time just in a dark place imagining a setting and interacting with it. It can take several hours to make the details sometimes, but it is more fun than any video game!

[tracik]

Ooh, thanks for covering this topic, all of a sudden it’s blowing up out of nowhere as a discussion 😃

[teknomo]

i can use my minds eye with my eyes open. i never knew people couldn't visual at all. visualization is such a powerful escape for me. probably why I love reading so much. Thank you for sharing your experience. Thank you everyone in comments for also sharing yours. it's amazing how unique and diverse we all are, even in those that said they too have aphantasia. the spectrum is colorful.

[noor-]

Cool, never heard about aphantasia. Doing the exercice with u about the horse in the field, I had the impression I could picture the horse and field clearly, but when I tried to add a detail (cat) it seemed blurry, as if I couldn't get a grip on it. I will further invastigate that🧐😉Recently I saw a video about people with no inner monologue and I was mind blown for days. It's a different concept but seems similar in some ways. It's actually crazy how most people grow up without realization of how different brains can function, why they don't teach this at highschool?! It's so important in life and people with a neurodiverse brain would discover it more early.