Gender Dysphoria Diagnosis and Treatment | Abigail Shrier & Jordan B Peterson

Abigail Shrier has spent multiple years investigating what she sees as a Transgender phenomenon that seems to be invading western culture at an exceedingly fast rate. Abigail has talked with multiple scientists, doctors, and therapists regarding the root causes of the phenomenon and has concluded that one of the major factors appears to be the way that the diagnosis and definitions around Gender Dysphoria, and thus the treatment, have changed in recent years.

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[MarkSmithhhh]

I had gender dysphoria for a long time and I seriously looked for a therapist that would not just "affirm" me forever...I wanted to take a deeper dive into why I felt the way I did and explore all the reasons, points of view, and consequences...nope almost every single therapist affirmed me and pushed me into transitioning or expressing more female...there was never a thought of seeing if there was a way I could come to terms with my male body and who I was....eventually I found one, and after a year I am now 100% comfortable as My birth gender, I just simply have a more feminine tendencies and mannerisms but that doesn't mean I'm a WOMAN and that I need to completely change all things about my life includ8ng my hormones and body...I'm a feminine male, and that's ok, but I'm not a woman and never will be...and I'm 100% comfortable with it

[Kate-vdhl]

This is actually an extremely personal subject for me. I socially transitioned and medically transitioned (double masectomy and hormone blockers at 14). I was still in MIDDLESCHOOL at the time. I went on to be "stealth" my freshman year (meaning I was presenting as a boy without people knowing I was trans). I lived in the boys dorm and played boys sports. It was interesting, I got to see the side of boys when there are no girls around. I got way better at sports because of the high competition levels. I never associated myself without trans kids because I thought they were weird I really just wanted to be normal like everyone else. My sophomore year I realized I did not want to go on testosterone (even as an ideal candidate according to the doctors) because I didn't want those irreversible changes and I knew I couldn't stand to be undeveloped throughout highschool (It would seem as if I never hit puberty). I have been following you since before I transitioned. I really owe you the strength and clarity of thought that brought me to realize that transitioning wasn't right for me. I remember crying and writing and just trying to figure out who I would tell and how, knowing that in the end I'd be okay and I could handle whatever I was going to deal with for the next year or so. I told my best friend at the time, Leila, first. She was surprised, she didn't even know I was trans. Slowly I got better at telling more and more people. Later in that year I told my Dad. He always had his doubts about me transitioning but all the doctors and therapists told him it was right for me and my mom heavily supported me. I'm 18 now. It's been 3 years since I detransitioned and I'm finishing up my last year of highschool to go on to play two sports in college. I'm doing pretty well for myself and I'm proud of how far I've come. I lost my breasts and that is not something light. I'll never be able to breastfeed my kids, I can't really feel them, I still haven't reversed the surgery with implants and I'm not sure when I will have time to recover from it given my busy athletic schedule. I'm one of the lucky ones. I never went on testosterone, my voice isn't deep, I'm physically attractive, I have great friendships at school and on my sports teams, and a supportive girlfriend who I love.
It sucks to see kids my age transition and I know that it's probably not right for them. A lot of people ask why I did it in the first place, wondering what it is I was feeling at the time. I'm still not completely sure. I liked the attention I got from girls as a middleschooler when I presented as male. I felt really isolated and weird as many young girls do at that age. Middle school is hard. I found a one size fits all solution and ran with it. Once I started it felt like i couldn't really go back. I began re-imagining memories that never happened to reconcile my present dysphoria. I would pretend to feel disgusted by my body in the mirror when really I had no issue with it. I knew dysphoria was a prerequisite for being trans so I needed to have it. I have no idea how to speak up about this. It feels hopeless. Fresh out of detransitioning I wanted to start a movement and spread the word and help tons of people. I got caught up in school and sports and my social life. I chose to be a kid. On one hand I feel as though it's my responsibility to prevent others from making the same mistakes as I did, on the other I feel like it's not my place to tell people what to do with themselves. The things that really need to be stopped are the few insidious doctors who you can just tell don't believe it either. I'm not sure why they are allowing this but there is something straight up creepy about some of them.

[wannabehuman]

(Edit: I’m doing better now but leaving this comment up in case people want to read responses etc)

This is a painful topic for me. I have gender dysphoria and I hate it everyday, it affects every moment and I wish it had never happened to me. Of course I am not a boy, I’m female and was born female, but my brain rejects it to the point of severe distress. But the hormones and invasive procedures are scary, and I worry about regretting them because there’s really no going back. I would much rather heal the brain than alter the body, but unfortunately we don’t have any evidence of the dysphoria’s causes or therapies that work to alleviate it. I can only hope that one day we’ll find a way to heal gender dysphoria rather than mask it. I hope people investigate the multisense theory and find something useful from it. I want to feel comfortable in my skin at some point during this life.

(Edit: I’m actually doing a lot better because I found other ways to help myself. It’s not totally gone, but it’s much better than before and I don’t even think about or feel it most of the time! I hope that other dysphoric people are able to find peace with themselves and hope that it’ll get better. My best advice (or what helped me, at least, it’s different for everybody) is to first allow yourself to feel all the negative emotions without engaging in affirming behaviours or obsessions to calm them (this doesn’t mean wearing clothes that make you uncomfortable, it’s about not obsessing over the clothes or your body (etc) once you put them on) and over time try to think about why you feel dysphoric, where the negative feelings come from. You feel dysphoric, what does that mean? You feel bad about your breasts? Your hips, or genitals? Why? because they’re female, or feminine. Ok, why is that distressing to you? Try to get to the bottom of these things and then you can deal with it at the sources. The dysphoria isn’t a part of who we are, it’s an illness with a source or multiple sources. Try to work on healing the sources.

I’ll give some examples, just in case you’re dealing with similar things. Are you dealing with internalized homophobia (whether you’re homosexual or bisexual) or misogyny? Do you think your sex is “less than” the other? Do you have preexisting notions of what your sex is “supposed” to be like? Were you bullied or abused or treated badly by others of your sex? Did you feel like you don’t belong with people of your sex? Are you uncomfortable with the gender roles that people want you to have? Do you have body dysmorphia or other body issues? Were you hurt or assaulted in the past? Do you (or might you) have a personality disorder like BPD? Do you have sensory issues or autism? Low self-esteem? Negative beliefs about the self? Do you feel safer presenting as the opposite sex, and why? Do you feel validated by the online community, and why? Do you struggle socially? Are you trying to be different for some reason? There are many things that might contribute to dysphoria, but that’s a list of some things to think about. I hope this helps someone. There is always hope.)

[Needlestolearn]

As a therapist, your main focus should be on someone past rather then their future. The cure is understanding how they got to that point instead of believing that the cure will be found in the future

[BrotherTree]

Identity politics will be the death of us if we don't sort this out intelligently and wisely with multi-factored investigative analysis taken into account. We need everything we can get to tackle this, both physics and metaphysics.

[Adnegaify]

Aggressive activits have a significant influence on specific literature with no regard to real health. And it hurts souls.

[Flaphand]

I'm so glad a proper discussion has been aired on this subject. Mostly it's either pro and con debates which aren't very nuanced, but this is.

[wjhtre]

"This is not medicine anylonger, its closer to witchcraft." 6:45

[Smallpotato]

About two years ago I got the shock of my life when, while meeting up with friends, an old university friend of mine, whom I always considered to be VERY intelligent, started to spout things like 'if someone believes they are a woman or a man, even if they were not born so, then they ARE a woman or a man, because there is not biological difference between men and women'. Now. she works for the European Council in Brussels and they're woke as f*ck, so I thought she was just mouthing this in order to keep a very swanky job, but no, she apparantly believed this. So I asked her, "so if you believe you are a man, you are biologically a man?', and she said yes. Then I asked her if she believed she was a chicken, would that make her biologically a chicken, and if so, could I wring her neck and eat her, or would I get arrested for murder and cannibalism? She was NOT amused. Later that evening she started to spout about how 'sexist' her workplace was (puh-leeze!). Apparanlty, she had gotten the opportunity to speak at some congress or meeting or somesuch and she had been rather aggressive and even attacking the people present on some numbers they had wrongly reported or whatever. The senior director of her department had taken her apart and had rather mildly advised her to be less aggressive next time and she was furious! "He would never say this to a MAN!" Uh, yes, he would. And the young man who would be merely angry disregard his advice like she did would be dropped and no longer mentored and never reach the top. But she might. Because she a wahmen. So I quipped (believe me, I'm never this snide or ad-rem, but I was in a mood because this was a woman I had been friends with for nearly two decades, damn it! And it feels as if I no longer even KNOW her!), I quipped that, since gender identity is fluid, she would simply have to identify as a man whenever she dealt with said director and immediately be showered by male privilege and male croneyism, etc.
Again, she was NOT amused.
I'm afraid our friendship has been sadly dimished.

[Ignasimp]

At college, in my master's degree I was told to be a homophobe for saying that sexual orientation is not something you choose, but something that's part of you from the beginning and can't be changed.

Guess who was the only homosexual at that class. Yes, it was me.

[delorafurzehill]

I am a 40 year old transgender woman, I have lived my 40 years trying my hardest to be the man that everyone expects me to be. As one gets older and you go further down the path you have chosen, or that society has dictated for you it gets harder to deviate or turn around. I have a wife, children and a career. I had assumed that my confused gender identity was just a phase that I'd grow out of, sadly, I was wrong.
At the age of 40 I am now seeking therapy for anxiety and depression that results from the shame of hiding my identity.

I wonder how different my life would have been if gender dysphoria had been recognized when I was a kid.

[almor]

Isolated south American natives were asked about trans issues. They understood the concept of masculine and feminine within a shared body but didn't understand why this should require physical change. When gender is a social construct there is no need to look different to try to match it.

[KatieCooper]

The overwhelming majority of trans people that've transitioned are extremely happy with their choice. Sure there is a sensible debate to be had about giving powerful hormone blocking drugs to very young children, with pros and cons on both sides of the debate. I think it's an important debate. However when teenagers and adults (who know the implications of their actions and truly know how they feel) decide to transition socially or medically then they should be allowed to do that without persecution or abuse. I honestly don't understand the fear, hatred and bigotry that some people throw at transgender individuals. It's their life and their body so it's their choice. Haters act like every transgender individual is some sort of criminal, sex pervert or paedo when 99.999% are just decent people looking to live a happy life.

Them transitioning doesn't effect your life in any way. Why do some people care how another person choses to life their life? Why do they feel the need to intrude on another persons happiness? Why does a person transitioning to feel happy, correct and content with their identity bother the haters so much? It doesn't effect you at all so why do the haters and sceptics feel the need to be so abusive?

Let informed people make informed decisions about their body and gender identity. It's their choice. You don't have to agree with it (or even like it) but you should still treat them with dignity and respect, be polite and decent to a fellow human being.

[toddr]

In all of these conversations, there is a striking absence of the pre-existing psychiatric conditions that pre-date any of these gender discussions. In my experience, all of these patients have long-standing histories of severe trauma, abandonment, depression and often autistic traits that leads to complete social-isolation and self-loathing that has led to many seeking identity with one group that gives them instant transformation and identity. I have never seen an individual with just gender identity issues. Ever

[alexandreparent]

Notification gang, I am glad JBP talks about this topic. I am still searching for more info in order to form a stance which I haven't done.

[Makedonomaxos]

So insightful. Would be interesting to see an episode addressing and trying to answer the questions: Who is pushing all this? Why is it happening? Is there a final purpose on this political agenda? What were the early signs of this paranoia during the last years, how it evolved over time?

[ToastyCoClothing]

I'd be interested in hearing Dr. Peterson's thoughts on a medical pathway for coping with gender dysphoria outside of full of physiological transition.

[jillishan]

I would love to see JP clinically assess someone with gender dysphoria. Or at least walk us through the steps that one would take to medically assess someone with GD. While I agree with what is being said, I do believe it is easy to creat theories about gender dysphoric individuals without them being their to give some insight into what they go through.

[StevePlaysBanjo]

Could it be that there is a lack of education differentiating “gender role fluidity” from “gender fluidity?” “Gender role” is the social construct of expected gender behaviors – such as “girls don’t wear pants” or “boys don’t like purple.” Fortunately, we’ve grown, as a society, to learn that gender role is artificial and sometimes damaging. However, this gets conflated with “gender is a social construct.” This is a very different thing.

[nubtor]

First and foremost confusion about gender begins from not understanding what it is to be female or male, and having less and less examples of either. Take that confusion, mix it with instagation by people, systems and entities who want to see the destruction of the family or have fallen for a parasitic ideas and peer pressure. Then add hormone disruptive compounds pervasive in everything you consume. Take the rebellious nature of teenage discontent and anxiety along with the shortsitedness of youth and the willingness to jump in with out considering the consequences and having again no examples or guidance to the contrary. Finally add the philosophy and reality of holding to apposing views that creates stress the inability to think properly or deeply and its no wonder.