The Grayzone: Anti-Americanism Isn't an Ideology | BadEmpanada

#Grayzone

Max Blumenthal Ben Norton

[clara-futt]

Ah yes, the two genders: boys and non-boys

[zhala]

Grayzone is doing good job in debunking israeli lies propagated by legacy media. They are not perfect but are very much needed

[brennan_]

I'm almost sympathetic to these contrarian types. If you're a regular defender of these sorts of states, you're going to be swamped with arguments like "China is developing terminator weapons to vaporize non-Han ethnicities" and "Iran funded ISIS and 9/11". I think constantly dealing with that online is going to warp how you discuss these topics.

It's same thing with MLs saying Stalin did nothing wrong. Obviously he did, but if you're ideologically aligned with the USSR and always hear people say shit like he killed 100 million Ukrainian, after a point it's probably just easier to unequivocally defend him because that's what your opponents are gonna hear regardless of whatever nuance your bring to the conversation.

[Saygoodnightfight]

As a Venezuelan Marxist, I appreciate your balanced view of Venezuela. While I despise Maduro and certain members of PSUV, I do not condone Guaido or any of these Liberals who are trying to reclaim power that they would use to inevitably cause another Caracazo.

Maduro has done a lot of harm to the indigenous tribes of Venezuela, even having members of the military kill members of the Pemon Tribe so that they could harbor oil from the Arco Mineres region. So as a leftist who cares about people, there is a lot to complain about, while acknowledging that the Liberal opposition are garbage.

[swiftxrt]

I get called an American puppet on twitter for trying to suggest that Russian and Chinese capitalist oligarchs are not a good solution to American capitalist oligarchs

[FPSIreland]

Anti-americanism may not be an ideology.

But it is undoubtedly entertaining.

[debrasue]

Reminds me of one of the few (perhaps the only) things Ben Shabibo has ever correctly pointed out: "two things can be true at the same time."

[nathandrake]

I think there is this weird orientalist view among conspiracy theorist prone radlibs that Asian countries are incapable of being fascist or even just as bad as the US. You will experience this when you argue with Tulsi Gabbard stans who call you a "hinduphobe" for pointing out her uncomfortable affinity for Modi and the BJP. I even argued with someone who said that caring about ethnic cleansing in Kashmir is taking the side of American imperialism, as if the Indian and American far right have any diverging interests and Modi's role in the Gujarat riots hasn't been totally ignored by the US since he became prime minister.

[zackzebedi]

I commend you as an average Iranian. We really are stuck between a murderous gov and a murderous superpower.

[happyslave]

Going with low-end working class American salary x 1/16th, that ground chicken = $93.75

[CalamityJay-ezmq]

One of the most depressing things about gaining class consciousness is realising that there are no good states on Earth

[luizhumberto]

About China, after the revolution they organized public healthcare, in the form of urban clinics and medical services organized around the communes. After the decollectivization promoted by Deng Xiaoping, this system was dismantled.

[UFOhunter]

I hate how everything is getting turned into a two sided ultimatum of mutually exclusive opinion, you either support Ukraine and love the us or hate the us and love russia and china. Like those aren't the only 2 opinions, more than 1 group can suck at the same time. nuance is being lost. this also goes the other way giving criticism to the US and getting a response of "oh where are from huh, you think you're so good" like no, they're also shit and like you. a global hegemon is still a global hegemon, even if it's not the us

[valq]

"There is no war in Ba Sing Se"
"Uh... yes there is"
"WHAT DO YOU LOVE THE FIRE NATION OR SOMETHING????"

[comradec]

Universal health care existed under Mao and was removed as well as other workers right by deng other than that great video

[Mrcaptan]

While I agree with this specific strand of anti-Americanism, as an Iranian myself, I see calls from the western/white (typically anarchist) left to "support the protests" in Iran as equally problematic and antithetical to a worldview that respects our self-determination. I support their right to protest (hell I hate IR myself. I have family members killed and imprisoned by IR), but beyond that, what does it even mean to "support the protesters" for a western leftist? Does it go anywhere beyond... "having the right opinion" and "choosing the right side", especially in a conflict that is fueled to a VERY large extent by US sanctions and warmongering?


I think good politics isn't trying to look at every conflict and see "which side you're supposed to support", whether it's the specific anti-US (or pro-US for that matter) state, or its opposition. Good politics is to identify what you can do in a specific conflict and how you can help resolve it.


As an Iranian, all I can say is that we don't *need* your side-taking. It does nothing for us. Whether you're a western Marxist-Leninist type (or contrarian) siding with the IR or excusing its actions towards Iranians and others, or a western anarchist type opposing IR and siding with the protesters (among which there's a LOT of reactionary tendencies, as well as a general lack of consensus on what the fuck they want, beyond "regime change", which itself seems like a good recipe for disaster, especially if there aren't goals, let alone plans, for what comes next), your side-taking is unproductive. Iran is a deeply divided country. There's significant support for and opposition to IR. Even if we do overthrow IR, its supporters aren't gonna vanish into thin air. What we need is breathing room to heal our divides, not well-meaning westerners sticking their dick in our conflicts. Conflicts that exist because of western involvement, or at least are widely justified by it.


Whether US imperialism is used as an excuse for oppression, or poor/incompetent response to it leads to crises in Iran, the fact of the matter is that it plays a central role in this conflict. When you decide to take sides in these conflicts, you're implicitly deciding "what Iranians should do", which isn't a sign of respect for our right to self-determination. And I don't think there is even an answer to the question "what should Iranians do". There's nothing we *can* do, because there are pieces to this conflict that are outside of our control. As long as US imperialism exists, we don't have a clear way out.

Western side-taking in these conflict is like being the big neighbor who pisses in your neighbors' pool, seeing a conflict in the household ensuing as they argue about how to respond to the big guy pissing in their pool, and you, standing there, holding your dick, continuing to pee, while rubbing your chin and asking "whose side should I take?". Maybe there is a right side. Maybe there isn't. But you can do is to stop peeing. Cheering any of the sides of this conflict is not what's going to resolve this situation. It's gonna make it worse.

[JD-vekn]

the Grayzone's coverage of Syria especially is very valuable to dismantling US and European propaganda. i certainly don't agree with everything their reporters put out but people like Aaron Mate are invaluable in the fight against Western imperialism imo

[jennanderson]

A good reminder to be critical of all media we consume. Thanks!

[sobdjs]

There currently is no rival to US imperialism. Countering Western Imperialist Propaganda doesn't equate to support for the targets of Western Imperialism.

[bymovingimages]

If you can’t call modern China “Capitalist” without people throwing a fit, then I’m worried about the online left