Discover How Wildly Different EV Incentives & Penalties Are Across States

Episode 443: Join Francie as she investigates how different states impose incentives and penalties on EV drivers. Are EV owners being taxed fairly compared to their ICE-driving counterparts? Discover the disparities and discuss potential solutions to ensure proportionate taxation for all drivers.

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#tax #ev #disproportionately

[bellshooter]

The elephant in the room is that road damage is related to the square of axle loads, so trucks and semis have way more effect on roads than any car. And that heavy personal vehicles do not get extra tax proportionally....

[vincentrobinette]

In Utah, we pay extra during registration. If you do the calculations, you would have to drive a car that gets 30 MPH about 30, 000 miles to pay the same road-use tax that EV's pay at registration. The ONLY fair way to do it, would be to have vehicle classes, where there's a constant, that is multiplied by the mileage driven. Smaller cars would have a smaller multiplier, whereas, large pick-up trucks and SUV's would have a higher multiplier, proportionate to their weight. There would have to be strict requirements on odometer readings. If a vehicles odometer readings aren't reliable, a GPS receiver can be used, to track the total miles driven between registrations. A good GPS might even be able to recognize when you're driving out of state, and not count those miles!
(You're going to hate me for this) This should apply to ALL vehicles, taking road-use tax off of gasoline, diesel, propane, compressed natural gas, or ethanol. This way, the state doesn't lose anything, allowing EV's to be charged with solar panels, and allows people to experiment with Bio-fuels. (Cooking oils for diesels, "home-brew" alcohols for spark-plug engines) These vehicles should be taxed just like the electrics, to maintain a level playing field! This is also more fair for "Hot-Rods", restored antique vehicles, recreational vehicles, and other "special interest" vehicles, that don't get driven much, but still need to be registered, for those special occasions.

[Gazer]

These flat annual fees are not fair as it penalize people that don't drive a lot.

[rcpmac]

People have already mentioned that a flat fee is unfair to low mileage drivers. In addition a flat fee unfairly taxes multiple car owners. If I drive 10, 000 annually and own 3 cars I pay 3x as much

[thetinker]

Flat fees are a terrible way to do this as grandmas who just drive to and from church on Sundays in her sedan pays the same as a sales rep doing 50k+ miles a year in a fully loaded pickup. If this is to pay for the roads: it should be proportional. Having it based on the estimated damage to the road per unit distance and the distance traveled for that vehicle, regardless of propulsion, seems like it would be fairly simple and vastly more fair for EVERYONE.

[lakeeffected]

In states that have annual safety inspections adding a certification of the number of miles driven with a highway use fee based on that seems reasonable. That could be done across that board for all vehicles by weight class making it fair for ice vehicles with elimination of the gas tax.

[chuckhursch]

For my 2023 Model 3’s CA registration renewal this year, I don’t see any $100 registration penalty broken out, so it makes me wonder if it’s actually in force yet. Also, flat fees are unfair to low-mileage drivers.

[jorgecintron]

In the near future many people will be priced out of vehicle ownership. It’s getting to be a pure luxury to own any vehicle no matter the make/model, ice/EV. It won’t matter, fees and Insurance prices as well as repair costs are just getting out of hand.

[dennislyons]

If EV's are charged for "road maintenance" but do not contribute directly to the cost of pollution mitigation then, ICE vehicles should be charged a "solution fee" based on their EPA rated mileage. A per gallon carbon tax collected to mitigate the effects of the pollution they create would be appropriate to level the playing field.

[matt]

It's also important to mention that the federal gas tax has not changed. Since some time in the '70s and it's not a percentage it's a flat amount. We just need to change how we tax the roads in general. Hold business more accountable as they benefit the most. Amazon is only a trillion dollar company because they can access the entire road network to deliver all their packages.

[steve]

Replace all these taxes fees, etc with more toll roads. More transparent and equitable for everyone. The most well-maintained and least congested roads here in California are all toll roads.

[stevedowler]

Great topic, thanks Francie and OOS. I didn't think about reg fees but I see that I should have. I bought and registered my MYLR in 2022 in CA even though I live in CO as my primary residence. Then I re-reged it in CO and got to transfer most of my CA fee against the CO fee. But I missed the incentive in CO and the Fed incentive due to purchase timing. I'm considering trading in once the Model Y refresh shows up and has HW4 or better. I'll be able to take the incentives and pay the lower reg fees in CO at that time as long as they are still available. But the insurance cost is still high. That cost is the largest ongoing cost of ownership next to tires. Off peak electricity at home is very low at 14 cents per kW but the road trips from CO to CA and back are hit with about 35 to 45 cents but I only do those road trips about once every 2 - 3 years. Tourism road trips are taken more often and also cost in that range.

[petewalter]

My electric bill says that is taxed too.

[rationalist]

@2:20 texas @11:00 alabama, arkansas, ohio, west virginia @12:00 michigan, georgia, washington, texas @14:00 all states @18:45 usa maps

[oparayev]

In Texas, we pay a $400 fee on new Registrations of EVs and $200 each year after. This is to offset the loss of gas tax. There is a comment about using vehicle inspections. Texas is doing away with safety inspections in September. For 10, 000 miles a Chevy Tahoe would pay about $125. The Tahoe outweighs my Model Y by 3000 lbs. On the other handle I get the benefit of quick acceleration without noise and pollution. Thank you for covering.

[KineticEV]

I paid $1, 900 in taxes last year alone on my 2022 Model Y. My registration cost here in Virginia is fairly low. I have a 2013 Kia Optima and pay significantly less in taxes on that. But to put it in perspective, I have a Lexus LS400 that is definitely considered a luxury vehicle and paid a little over $400 a year in vehicle property taxes. So they definitely are padding that bill for EV owners.

And while I totally understand the purpose of the gas tax, one should google if the gas tax is spent completely on roads. I've read articles that show the tax money being funneled into a state's general fund and a portion of it is being applied to road construction. The gas tax alone is not the only money a state receives for infrastructure. They also receive federal funds. Maybe this is why some states only dedicate a portion of their actual gas tax to infrastructure.

[dennisschlieckau]

Francie, I don’t have a problem paying some extra fee. However, the fee doesn’t take into account miles driven. The State gets the flat fee ( tax ) upfront regardless of energy consumption. My State, Wisconsin, charges $175 EV surcharge on top of Base registration $85.00. Wisconsin recently Passed an EV infrastructure bill that imposes $0.03 per kWh Tax on Retail Public Charging. (home charging is exempt) The tax is meant to bring parity with the Gas Tax $0.33 per gallon. 10 kWh would be $0.30 The bill also allows private Retail sales of Electricity for the purpose of EV charging by the kWh. Previously only Utilities could sell electricity by the kWh. Tesla Superchargers were previously permitted minute rate based now they are all $0.36 per kWh.

[ChrisBelson-lytr]

My WA tabs were well over $1000 for when I bought my EV. ('22 BMW i4 eDrive40)
Excise taxes, EV fees, weight fees, extra weight fees, administration fees, fee processing fees, etc.
First and second renewals have both been over $1000, but next year it should drop below, as the depreciation does reduce the taxes part.

[milohobo]

Louisiana may be really far behind, but at least we aren't all that bad

[aaronhendrickson]

EVs don't leak liquid on the streets. Ice vehicle leak oil and other fluid that damage the roads. Does rubber from tires really damage roads?